sex with your doctor

Your therapist/doctor has crossed the line. Get another doctor IMMEDIATELY.

your right, used again I guess..........

AG,

It happened.

It's over, yes?

Don't beat yourself up again and again...it won't make you feel better.

Agree with Wisher's points...

All the best to you,
Sasse

"AGAIN" ????

I hope that you meant by men in general, and not by a doctor.

And, if you are used by men in general, then therapy is needed, and please - insist on a woman for therapy.

Atlanta . . . report this therapist, immediately. He needs to be disciplined!!!! What he did was go waaaaaaaaaaaay beyond what is ethical. He used you when you were your most vulnerable. You are not at fault for what happened, but are a victim of sexual abuse. Do not in any way, shape or form take responsibility for what happened. HE is the one that should have kept his hand off of you and HE KNOWS THAT!!! Please get some help as soon as you can.

The College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario takes any issue of sexual abuse very seriously:

Dr. Charles Chul Soo Im, (no practice address). On October 22, 2009, the Discipline Committee found that Dr. Im committed an act of professional misconduct, in that he has been found guilty of an offence that is relevant to his suitability to practise. In December 2005, Dr. Im was found guilty of the criminal offence of sexual assault for rubbing his groin against a patient during an eye examination in July 2004. Dr. Im received a six month conditional sentence, followed by three years of probation. The Committee ordered the revocation of Dr. Im's certificate of registration; a public reprimand; Dr. Im is to pay the College’s costs fixed in the amount of $3,650; and the results of the proceeding are to be included in the College’s public register.

He rubbed his groin during an eye exam. That's what he did, and that's what he got.

Dear AG ~ This is a very, very serious offense. He saw you as vulnerable, and took advantage. He needs to be reported to the GA licensing board of physicians.

And you need therapy. I agree with finding yourself a nice safe female therapist.

Best of luck,
Pam

thank you so much!!!! I have really had the &*$*%^&$^^& beat out of me this year.... and I might still ne cute in my forties BUT I AM NOT A TRAMP...... and I really resent someone treating me like one. I am having some financial problems and this was supposed to be a private "slidding scale" session. If I wanted to have my chest gropped..... I would have gone to a BAR. I am NOT a piece of meat, I needed a friend, what I got was left in tears again.......... and I don't think he heard a word I said.... worse, there's no one I can call and talk to.... literally NO one

thank you so much!!!! thank you so much!!!! thank you so much!!!! thank you so much!!!! thank you so much!!!! thank you so much!!!! thank you so much!!!! thank you so much!!!! thank you so much!!!!

No, you are not a tramp. He violated you in the worst way. I am so very sorry this happened to you. It never should have. You do have someplace to talk . . . here. There have been many of us on the forum who have been sexually abused (including myself). Together we can help. Just remember . . . this was NOT your fault. You don't have to search very hard on the Internet to know that a therapist should not engage in ANY sexual contact with is client/patient. That is a boundary issue which any Governing board will not tolerate. They realize there is a power difference between the therapist/patient and the vulnerabilities of the patient. If he did this to you, I'll bet he has done it to others.

Atlanta . . . I am sure there are sexual assault crises centres in your city that can help you. Do you think that you could find one and talk to someone who has experience in these things?

I'll think about it..... this last week has been especially bad. I really don't need any more hits.....right now, this helped.

Atlanta . . . from my own experience, sexual abuse left me feeling dirty, guilty and to blame. These are common things that victims feel. If you feel any of these feelings, trust me, you shouldn't. You should put the blame where it belongs. At the doctor. You should be angry at this doctor for taking advantage of you. He KNEW what he was doing.

You will only find support from an assault centre. That is what they are there for. What makes it hard for victims, is they are "afraid" to speak, because of what others may think about them. It is this fear that needs to be overcome.

Atlanta,
Is this the same doctor that you were having doubts about a couple of months ago in this thread?
http://www.ratemds.com/social/?q=node/37980
If so, please get yourself out of this situation. You have been dealing with it for far too long.

Atlanta . . . I'm sure it is very hard for you to talk about what happened right now. I am going to suggest that you read some of the challenges that I had to overcome before I realized that I was sexually abused and what I have learned to become a survivor. http://www.ratemds.com/social/?q=node/28981

We all face different challenges, but in the long run if it impacted our lives, then we suffer very similar effects.

No, not the same……. The 1st one… well, I was becoming attached and he can’t be what I need. I need a “friend” not just someone to sleep with (and no I haven’t slept with him) …. I don’t let my guard down often, and when I do…. Well, let’s say I haven’t always made the best choice’s … my mom died two years ago and she was the only person that I completely trusted This year my kid sister committed suicide, and I won’t do that. I have no one I trust enough to run to. The one person I think I could, the one person I can’t lie to … married and I am not his problem. This “dr??” was from this am, sliding scale therapist from the neighborhood church …. I don’t think he heard a word I said, and I refuse to believe that jeans, and sweat shirt, no make up, and hair in a pony tail “created an atmosphere” that made me irresistible. I am NOT some dark temptress trying to seduce every man I see….. I was crying, he used the Shoulder to cry on as an excuse to feel (____________) and I left within minutes after. He has called twice, and I don’t think I need to talk to him. To say that I am depressed is an understatement, I just need the “right” person to care enough to listen ….

Sorry about the loss of your mother and your sister. I really think that the sooner you see a female therapist, the better. You're in my thoughts and prayers.

I am sorry to hear about your mother and sister, too. You have had a lot to deal with these last couple of years.

I just would like to clarify, though, that a "therapist" is not a "friend," even as much as we would like them to be. Nor should a "therapist" allow you to think that he/she is your "friend." They are there to listen to you, offer support and offer suggestions of different ways of "thinking" through situations. When they allow themselves to get too close and personal, then they are mudding the waters and only doing more harm then good for you.

A therapist who gets close so that you "have a shoulder to cry on" is completely, totally out of bounds. It sounds to me that he is more a predator than a therapist. There is nothing wrong with having a "good cry." From my own experience, "crying" was a release of all the emotions that I had held back for years. As it was explained to me, it was a "cleansing" cry.

Right now, I think you need to concentrate on you and your getting into therapy with someone who is reliable. Ask your doctor if he/she can recommend someone (a female probably would be a better fit right now) and/or ask people that you trust if they know of anyone. As I mentioned yesterday, it may be a wise idea to go to or get in contact with a sexual assault center. I believe most of these are open 24 hours. They WILL be able to help you through this difficult time. You have been sexually assaulted by your therapist, which IS a crime and can have devastating consequences on YOUR life. The sooner that you are able to deal with it, the better. Trust me . . . I know.

It is never acceptable for a doctor to have relations with a patient. Wholey unethical from the providers standpoint.

He should dismiss you immediately from his practice, with references to other providers. The dismissal letter should detail the conflict he has recognized in his relationship with you. He should notify his state board immediately so that he limits the dicipline he may be facing.

No two buts about it.

Harley,
This may be a little off topic, but AE's last post made me think. What is your opinion of doctors who try to make friends with their patients? I mean getting together (not in a dating way) outside of work. Is that also crossing a line?

Harley, I agree. This was not once, but at least twice. Something weird is going on.

Nothing wrong with being friends. Lots of my patients are friends. Sexual relations are a different story...

May be OK for a medical doctor, but I don't think that a psychologist or a psychiatrist should be slipping into a social role with a patient. It just makes the professional role too ill defined.

I have to agree with you, Pam and I *think* you'll find that it is frowned upon within those professions.

I can agree with that. It seems reasonable. But I don't know the "rules" for a psychiatrist/ologist....

An caveat I didn't mention, I don't have any patients that I treat with psychiatic issues as a friends...Inadvertantly...but I guess subconciously as well.

Did Dr Ray Ray make a special visit to your abode and put something in your KoolAid?

What you described is the way a doctor indiscretion is supposed to be handled by the doctor, but, c'mon Harley, get real, how many doctors who sleep with patients take the proper protocol after the incident or affair?

Come back to earth where reality rules.

Sasse

I'd suggest you review the AMA code of medical ethics.

The relationship should be ended immediately, that's the ethical issue.

How one goes about it is the personal issue, and is open to interpretation.

I'm saying what I think should be done. That's about it.

You can choose to read into my comment any way you choose to, but don't assume that your interpretation of what I write, is what I mean.

"What you think should be done" is the essence of your second statement.

But "what you think should be done" is not done in I'd guess 99.8% of the cases, that's what I'm sayin'.

I hate to disagree w/you "Harley" but using someone is always using them ..... When you "take" from any person (man or woman) with no intention or balance (giving back) .... lets assume for -1- min. that a woman pursued you sexually .... when you finally couldn't "ignore it" or think it was in your head ... when it was finally overly apparent, you discovered you had feelings for her......... and all she wanted was what she wanted, ... and you decided "ok" I can handle this..... then you find out that you are nothing more than an un paid ****... she doesn't call you when she knows you need her, no attempt at comunication, no compassion..... nothing. time to go,at least in my case

What steps are you going to take to feel better atlanta?

Right now.....none, I have some other (more major things) in front of my feelings, but I will do something as soon as I can. thank you for asking

While you may have more major things that are occupying your mind right now, trying to tuck your feelings away, and ignoring them, can be harmful to your health.
You may find that you cannot move forward to deal with the "more major things".
I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

Thank you, and I know your right.......as soon as I can,

I have an appointment w/ female therapist on Monday..... At least I won't get felt up during the exam, I know I didn't do anything wrong, nor did I encourage..... so why do I feel "dirty" I have also looked up how I can file a complaint without providing my name........ I haven't told the boyfriend (he's out of state) about it, but it has made me appreciate him more, there's a HUGE difference in caring for someone .. and caring for their "parts" and yes, the line was crossed and NOT by me........ Chronic migraines, depression have NOTHING to do with my breast........

I am real glad to hear that you are seeing someone. Please be sure not to keep this abuse hidden from her.

You feel "dirty" because that is one of the effects of sexual abuse. You have taken a crime against you and made yourself responsible. As a victim of abuse, we tend to do that. I found the turning point of my healing from this abuse, was to put the blame where it belongs . . . on my abuser, not myself. Once I did that, it became easier to talk about it. Remember you are the VICTIM; not the abuser.

I am very glad to hear you have found a female therapist. This happened to me but with a primary care doctor. My therapist is female and has greatly helped me get beyond the feeling of "dirty and what did I do wrong". Please file a complaint with the state Medical Board. It will make you feel like you do have some recourse. Have you rated the therapist here to warn other women? There are polite ways of doing it. If interested PM me, my rating has been up for several years. I wish you well.

Atlanta . . . I don't know why I didn't say this earlier . . . get a copy of your file from this p-ervert as soon as possible. I KNOW how easy it is to falsify information in these files, and if this man is anything like the psychiatrist I saw, he'll make you look like the patient from hell. Mine made me look like a habitual liar . . . try to get a fair investigation with that constantly popping up in your file. As well, there may be an element of stigma in that you were being treated as a "mental" health patient which he may enhance to make you look like you were in much worse shape than you are. I only wish I had had this advice before I filed a complaint.

Oh so very true point! You should get that copy of your file because he has had time to make you look bad.
Same happened here like AE said. My PCP used every trick he could to cover his A**. Leaving me with only
one place to complain and that was rating him online. But I am not the only one to have complained about his
behavior, all his ratings are bad expect for the one he wrote.

We need to set out guidelines for people wanting to make a complaint.
From what I can see, you cannot trust the Colleges to do an honest and ethical investigation.

Not just the Colleges, Wisher, you cannot trust our version of state run medical boards in the US. As a patient, I don't want my
complaint reviewed by the Doctors peers. Were does that leave me? I don't have any answers either. I think Atlanta has a good
chance at filing a complaint because so far the therapist has not tried anything to make her look bad yet. Could change if she
gets her copy of the doctor's notes.

Sorry to hear that you went through the same thing, Qwackers. It is a horrible ordeal, isn't it? You put your faith and trust in these doctors and THEY abuse it to the nth degree. What Dr. Keriem did to my chart was unbelievable. I had enough evidence to show that it was a total rewrite, but I think all the investigator saw was "lying," "noncompliant," "refused," "manipulating" "sabotage," etc. throughout the chart . . . he wasn't interested in finding the truth.

It is so biased in favour of doctors that they are so full of crap when they say that they are there to protect the patient.

I've seen that they do absolutely no critical analysis of the situation. They make it so the doctor can avoid the "discipline" process, and in doing that, more crap happens. Still, they just hope that the problem will magically go away. That's not how it works.

They can't keep going on like this. They are much too full of crap! You know, in all the years that I disimpacted patients, I had a strong stomach, and never wanted to upchuck.

Disimpacting the College, on the other hand, makes me so sick to my stomach, that I want to vomit.

Edit: They may do critical analysis, for all I know, and if that is the case, then the CMPA is helping them to do it.

Both of these "dr's" crossed the line, -1- I care about and will NEVER do anything to hurt him, but I refuse to feel like a cheap piece of meat, its very apparent that I care for him, it is as apparent he doesn't care for me. When I called him to ask for direction (or help) I got the definate impression that I was annoying him, that only "parts" of my body interest him, and I don't need that. Until today, I really didn't realize how dirty or last encounter was, and I accept the responsibility for part of it, I was not forced in anyway, what I did I wanted to do,... but the collection letter I recieved today......lets say somethings wrong when a girl is charged for certain services..... "if" I were a ****, I am not a very good one. I will not be any closer to him than someone to service his needs in a 15 mins time slot, and I deserve better.
The therapist, there's NO excuse for......... NONE, I didn't want, encourage or in anyway indicated I wanted to "date" HIM..... so his latest excuse, (he called this am and i answered the call I didn't know the number) of being "lonly" is crap,... sell it down the road, I am NOT interested...."he even misspronounced my name..." as far as "comp-ing" all future visit's......I rather pay someone else. yes, I flirt, I smile, but I do not come off easy and according to the people in my life, I don't send those signals.... so, I here by let myself off the hook before it gets buried into my heart. what really bothers me, is that I care about the 1st guy, more than I wish I did..... and I would be lying if I said I didn't want to see him, but.... the fact that I do tells me I shouldn't, it is never going to be more than whats it is, what its is......... well isn't good enough

Did your encounters occur outside the office setting or in the exam rooms?

Sooooo, let me get this straight. These guys are charging you, or your health insurance money, or for an office visit for their having sex with you?

If she has to pay for it, you know what that makes him, eh?

No wonder that is against the standards, here in Ontario, Canada.

Just about anything else seeems to be o.k., from what I can see.

A doctor, like any supervisor or CEO is in a position of power. You aren't the one expected to set the boundaries. He is! You're not the one breaking the law. He is! You wrote that you like to flirt. So what? If a patients flirting make the physician uncomfortable, no matter how flattering, it's his responsibility to put a stop to it. It doesn't matter that you see it as consensual sex. You were vulnerable, he knew it and used it. From the doctor/patient perspective, that's a dangerous and despicable thing to do to a patient.

If you haven't done so already, find another doctor. Write the medical board and be as honest as you've been here. If nothing is done, contact your insurance carriet. Every time you paid for an office visit, so that he could use you, he charged your carrier...that's fraud. If the medical board and/or insurance carrier don't take action, contact an attorney and sue them both for fraud and sexual harassment. Lets see what happens when the little woman finds out what hubby's been up to?

I hope you feel better, and hope you realize that not all doctors are lecherous bastards.

I'm

i second that emicon

I really have to agree with what you say, Med101. From what I have read, especially as it relates to therapists, is that they are schooled in what is considered crossing boundaries, with no exceptions. They know that the client/patient is vulnerable and that there is a power differential there. There is NO excuse for either of these two therapists for having crossed that line.

Both These therapists are guilty of breach of trust, as well as sexual abuse . . . regardless if the first one was consensual or not. They crossed into an area that they knew was forbidden. I just wonder how many defenseless women they have taken advantage of. The worst part is, it is the woman who suffer afterwards; many of whom take the responsibility upon themselves. But that is the best part of it for the abuser, now isn't it?

How do you know it's true? Twice???? That's highly unlikely. Probably a reason psychiatrist have to be really careful.

The big question is how do we know it hasn't?
Do you believe that we should run her down? Call her a liar?? And if it really happened, what do you think will happen to her self esteem then???????
I would rather chose to support her, then to cause further damage by doubting her.
One thing I do know about sexual abuse is that if a person never gets help for it, they leave themselves wide open and vulnerable to be re-victimized.

I am not a liar
I accept what responsiblity of the 1st and 2nd encounter with my GP belongs to me, no more... and I am not accusing him of anything wrong, if fact if we could date, then I would, making a play for me when I was in bad shape is questionable .. and like and other MAN I put him in that catagory
the terapist CROSSED the line, I was depressed and needed help, My body is by invitation only.... and no one (regardless of who they are or who they think they are) will put their hands on me when I don't want them there
Unlikly or not
its true.......... believe it or not, doesn't change the facts

Atlantagirl, don't let one insensitive comment hurt you more. It is my experience that many people (including doctors) don't have the vaguest idea of the effects of sexual abuse. In fact, when I related to my ex-psychiatrist, Dr. Keriem, that my brother use to touch me when I was younger, he minimized it to a "common occurrence" between siblings, without asking ONE pertinent question. He didn't ask how old I was (8years) and how old was my brother (15). Instead, he totally ignored it. Later, when I found out that what my brother did was sexual abuse, when I tried to talk about it, Dr. Keriem wouldn't allow it. He told me that he only worked in the "here and now." I was suffering from PTSD and he didn't even twig to this. When I finally quit seeing him, I was suicidal. Thank God I did realize that the abuse was interfering with my life and I did find someone with the expertise in dealing with the effects of the abuse. I'll never regret having gone for this help.

I will emphasize again . . . Don't let the ignorance of other people get to you!! You deserve better.

I could write volumes about the effects of sexual abuse and how minimizing the abuse can have a traumatic effect on the victim. It is no laughing matter and people do need to get educated on how both the sexual abuse and the minimization can destroy a person's life.