Jane Identity revealed

I have to ask this as a separate topic..I wonder if anyone else feels similar in that Jane's death has obviously been revealed and now we can connect a real person and real history to her anonymous idenity. I thought this was a major no no in forum etiquette unless someone is attacking the forum or seeking to hurt the site. I dont recall Jane giving permission to release all this info in the forum that would allow us to see her REAL identity. I dont say it has damaged her reputation in any way but ethically I still dont feel it was right as we will never know whether or not she acutally would allow it to happen..she is dead and cannot consent? Or did she actually consent to this and I missed it. Sorry but I just dont feel this is right and John if she did not consent or someone acting as her power of attorney did not consent...shame on you for not moderating and editing this information...very foolish on this forums part in terms of lack of ethics in my opinion.

Bones, i do feel similar.

Bones, i do feel similar. however, this "public forum" has become somewhat of a closed society. Jane was very much an advocate and hcm does appear to be acting in best intention and wishes of her friend.. the revelation and detail is coming from hcm. and the impact of Jane's loss is evident with the regulars. i have very mixed feeling about all that has transpired and the dialogue that has taken place and am in a quandry from an ethical and human standpoint. i am in the medical field and do understand the outrage and confusion, pain and loss by those who developed a friendship with Jane. in her passing, her true identity has been revealed by some who knew who she was thru private communications. so she did share herself with a few other posters.
maybe the discomfort this is causing will have the positive impact Jane sought. For providers to not only listen but Hear their patients, and the patient learns to communicate more effectively with the provider. To work together for the best possible outcome and be more collaborative versus. demanding/dictatorship relation medicine has become.

wishandaprayer's picture

I don't think that Jane

I don't think that Jane would have thought it was the end of the world.

And, it certainly isn't going to hurt her career at all.

Jane loved justice, and she loved having the last word.

Everything happens for a reason, and her identity was revealed for a reason, in my opinion

For Jane to have justice; for Jane to have the last word.

Strawberry Jam's picture

Let's remember that Jane

Let's remember that Jane herself spoke with Representative McGovern the day before she died and reiterated her story in hopes that history would not be repeated. She would not have gone that route if she did not want her name to be released.

There was a newspaper story written about her as well.

Katherine's picture

Strawberry Jam wrote: Let's

Strawberry Jam wrote:

Let's remember that Jane herself spoke with Representative McGovern the day before she died and reiterated her story in hopes that history would not be repeated. She would not have gone that route if she did not want her name to be released.

There was a newspaper story written about her as well.

Right, and unless we had seen that article I don't know how many of us would truly believe she was dead.

harleyman-6's picture

Katherine wrote: Strawberry

Katherine wrote:
Strawberry Jam wrote:

Let's remember that Jane herself spoke with Representative McGovern the day before she died and reiterated her story in hopes that history would not be repeated. She would not have gone that route if she did not want her name to be released.

There was a newspaper story written about her as well.

Right, and unless we had seen that article I don't know how many of us would truly believe she was dead.

That's a good point, The newspaper article outed her....in a way. Did it make any correlation with her medical records or website identity? I didn't see the article.

heartthrob's picture

So what do you think that I

So what do you think that I should have done, Bones, withheld that knowledge while forum members kept posting 'Where's Jane'?........while I knew that she was dead?

She died in the very fashion that she spoke so passionately against. Who else did she have to defend her cause? Aside from Marianne, who did she have to care? Who was there to even mourn her loss?

Oh but let's put forum ethics first and just let her be dust to be swept under the rug. What she would have wanted? I think it's great that people are trying to think of ways that the system could be improved by patient representatives/advocates. I think it's great that some letters have been written to try to address the horrendous treatment that Jane received in the end. Those things could not have been, if this forum had never known of her death. I believe that Jane would have appreciated that. I think she would have wanted someone to care.

So beat me........ban me..........I'll become Heartthrob VI...Ha

Dan Walter's picture

The very fact that we are

The very fact that we are having this conversation vindicates the decision to identify Jane. If her identity had not been revealed, no one on this forum would know of the tragic and senseless ending to her life. As it is, her fight goes on and the story of her death serves to help change things for the better.

harleyman-6's picture

heartthrob wrote: Oh but

heartthrob wrote:

Oh but let's put forum ethics first and just let her be dust to be swept under the rug. What she would have wanted? I

To a much lesser degree, this "rule"/forum etiquitte of not posting PM's....and any other rules....who determines when a pass is given? Who determines who gets to do what? Who's opinion actually means more on an annonymous forum?

What you did by announcing her passing may have been a "breach" of forum etiquitte. There's no consequence to that other than being banned and returning 2 minutes later. The issue more at hand is the distribution her records by someone not necessarily authorized to do so.

You are assuming what she wanted. Was there written directive. Was there any verbal comment written with a notary present? Did her will say what she wanted. No? then Bone's and my assumption is just as valid as yours. More so actually, becasue Both of us have just a little more understanding of Power of Attorney/HealthCare Surrogate status regarding medical issues then you do. Medical professionals take medical ethics CME regularly.

I find it odd that as widely popular as this site has become Eye-wink, with all the intriguing discussion that an attorney with med-mal experience hasn't made his way into the forum. That person's input sure would help settle a lot (of course one who pursues, and one that defends)

Harleyman-6*
(*) denotes a previously hijacked HM-5, thus the skip to 6

abusedemotionally's picture

harleyman-6

harleyman-6 wrote:
heartthrob wrote:

Oh but let's put forum ethics first and just let her be dust to be swept under the rug. What she would have wanted? I

To a much lesser degree, this "rule"/forum etiquitte of not posting PM's....and any other rules....who determines when a pass is given? Who determines who gets to do what? Who's opinion actually means more on an annonymous forum?

What you did by announcing her passing may have been a "breach" of forum etiquitte. There's no consequence to that other than being banned and returning 2 minutes later. The issue more at hand is the distribution her records by someone not necessarily authorized to do so.

You are assuming what she wanted. Was there written directive. Was there any verbal comment written with a notary present? Did her will say what she wanted. No? then Bone's and my assumption is just as valid as yours. More so actually, becasue Both of us have just a little more understanding of Power of Attorney/HealthCare Surrogate status regarding medical issues then you do. Medical professionals take medical ethics CME regularly.

I find it odd that as widely popular as this site has become Eye-wink, with all the intriguing discussion that an attorney with med-mal experience hasn't made his way into the forum. That person's input sure would help settle a lot (of course one who pursues, and one that defends)

Harleyman-6*
(*) denotes a previously hijacked HM-5, thus the skip to 6

What Mare has attempted to do is make sense out of something that was totally senseless. She has firsthand knowledge of the mistreatment that Jane received, but no one who is claiming responsibility.

Isn't that what Jane used to fight about? Didn't it make her irate when she saw articles that she posted where there were different standards for different people? How many times did she comment that patients who were seen to be "mentally ill" had no credibility no matter what the circumstance?

Jane participated on threads when someone on the forum expressed some sort of abuse by the medical profession. She was an advocate for better healthcare nationwide. If she fell through the cracks, I think that she would be more than pleased that so many are interested to learn why, and want to do something to participate to see change.

Harley, many of us have been in situations where we can't understand how the medical boards/colleges allow substandard care with no reprimand to a doctor when we have proof that this substandard care existed. How many times have YOU said, "Prove it"? Here Mare has given you an opportunity to see *both* sides of the issue, which you always demand, and now you are saying that it isn't right to give that proof or look to see if there is anything within her records that shows a definite sign of negligence, etc..

Is this a sign of "white coats" covering for one another? Or is it really an ethics situation for you?

harleyman-6's picture

abusedemotionally

abusedemotionally wrote:

What Mare has attempted to do is make sense out of something that was totally senseless. She has firsthand knowledge of the mistreatment that Jane received, but no one who is claiming responsibility.

Isn't that what Jane used to fight about? Didn't it make her irate when she saw articles that she posted where there were different standards for different people? How many times did she comment that patients who were seen to be "mentally ill" had no credibility no matter what the circumstance?

Jane participated on threads when someone on the forum expressed some sort of abuse by the medical profession. She was an advocate for better healthcare nationwide. If she fell through the cracks, I think that she would be more than pleased that so many are interested to learn why, and want to do something to participate to see change.

Harley, many of us have been in situations where we can't understand how the medical boards/colleges allow substandard care with no reprimand to a doctor when we have proof that this substandard care existed. How many times have YOU said, "Prove it"? Here Mare has given you an opportunity to see *both* sides of the issue, which you always demand, and now you are saying that it isn't right to give that proof or look to see if there is anything within her records that shows a definite sign of negligence, etc..

Is this a sign of "white coats" covering for one another? Or is it really an ethics situation for you?

So you're saying, that seeking the proper method to do things, is a sign of supporting a cover-up? really?.....a tad bit conspiratorial.

If Marie has so much first hand info, then an estate attorney should have little if any difficulty providing Marie with authorization. She can then do as she wishes.

I have reviewed those records. I have my opinions privately. I expressed what I thought about the "void d/c" slip publicly. My comments were selectively interpreted, and I was flammed. It seems the same clique find what I say "offensive"...and that's fine. It says a lot. It's your forum, enjoy it. But it's not indicative of the real world where freedom of speech abounds. And judges/juries are impartial.

Janes Death could have been

Janes Death could have been announced without linkking it to the obit column that has more explicit detail. As much as Jane was for patient rights I am sure she was also for patient privacy and unless I see a written consent from her giving permission to release not only her records but her identity I am sorry but NONE of you especially John can excuse releasing her identity this way.Otherwise you are all assuming "implied consent" and you cannot know that..unless you had a Pm from her relating to doing this or from her immediate family how can you justify this. I find it interesting that if a DOCTOR did this with a patients info you all would be screaming about it yet it is ok for Joe public to do the same just because you are not members of a governing body. Has anyone bothered to check the legalities of this..maybe you should because seriously I do NOT think this is legal.

harleyman-6's picture

bones wrote: Janes Death

bones wrote:

Janes Death could have been announced without linkking it to the obit column that has more explicit detail. As much as Jane was for patient rights I am sure she was also for patient privacy and unless I see a written consent from her giving permission to release not only her records but her identity I am sorry but NONE of you especially John can excuse releasing her identity this way.Otherwise you are all assuming "implied consent" and you cannot know that..unless you had a Pm from her relating to doing this or from her immediate family how can you justify this. I find it interesting that if a DOCTOR did this with a patients info you all would be screaming about it yet it is ok for Joe public to do the same just because you are not members of a governing body. Has anyone bothered to check the legalities of this..maybe you should because seriously I do NOT think this is legal.

Yup...talk about a HIPPA violation...

hmm... is hippa applicable

hmm... is hippa applicable to non medical entity... is it illegal for a friend to speak of detail of someone's health?.. i will have to look that one up... doesnt hippa protect the patient from doc/nurse/tech/insurance carrier revealing info?.

harleyman-6's picture

noonespecial wrote: hmm...

noonespecial wrote:

hmm... is hippa applicable to non medical entity... is it illegal for a friend to speak of detail of someone's health?.. i will have to look that one up... doesnt hippa protect the patient from doc/nurse/tech/insurance carrier revealing info?.

No it's not..I was referring to Bones comment about if a doctor did it..

heartthrob's picture

abusedemotionally wrote:

abusedemotionally wrote:

How many times have YOU said, "Prove it"? Here Mare has given you an opportunity to see *both* sides of the issue, which you always demand, and now you are saying that it isn't right to give that proof or look to see if there is anything within her records that shows a definite sign of negligence, etc..

That is a great observation Sherry. You're right. They say 'prove it', only until they know that you can, then they find some reason to silence you!!

wishandaprayer's picture

abusedemotionally

abusedemotionally wrote:
harleyman-6 wrote:

Medical professionals take medical ethics CME regularly.

Harley, many of us have been in situations where we can't understand how the medical boards/colleges allow substandard care with no reprimand to a doctor when we have proof that this substandard care existed.

I have a great topic for a CME.

C ME and Bill and Lloyd, and what happened to us, and look at it from various perspectives:

Ethics, Safety, Prevention of Vision Loss, Prevention of Harm, Duty to Disclose, Human Rights.

A thoughtful response to what happened to us, as well as others should earn CME credits in all of those areas. Jane once said that my although my vision wasn't good, I could see. I can see with my heart. Some doctors and organizations are blind, and this is a safety issue.

In taking the blinders off, Jane's identity needed to be revealed. Jane could take the heat, in my opinion. She did reveal to us in one thread, that she would do what needed to be done to handle the heat, and she didn't care how it looked. What really matters? Jane's privacy or Jane's peace? If Jane can improve the system, she will rest in peace. That is clear to me.

harleyman-6

harleyman-6 wrote:
noonespecial wrote:

hmm... is hippa applicable to non medical entity... is it illegal for a friend to speak of detail of someone's health?.. i will have to look that one up... doesnt hippa protect the patient from doc/nurse/tech/insurance carrier revealing info?.

No it's not..I was referring to Bones comment about if a doctor did it..

and there in lies the ethical dilemma for you both.. YOU are bound.. the public is not and unless someone related to Jane complains.. well.. is it illegal?

harleyman-6's picture

noonespecial

noonespecial wrote:
harleyman-6 wrote:
noonespecial wrote:

hmm... is hippa applicable to non medical entity... is it illegal for a friend to speak of detail of someone's health?.. i will have to look that one up... doesnt hippa protect the patient from doc/nurse/tech/insurance carrier revealing info?.

No it's not..I was referring to Bones comment about if a doctor did it..

and there in lies the ethical dilemma for you both.. YOU are bound.. the public is not and unless someone related to Jane complains.. well.. is it illegal?

So, how do you exlain this varying degree of ethical dilemma...A little while ago, my ethic "level" was pretty low because of this....now it's suddenly, pointedly noted?

It also denotes the double standard that exists...

harleyman-6's picture

wishandaprayer wrote: I have

wishandaprayer wrote:

I have a great topic for a CME.

C ME and Bill and Lloyd, and what happened to us, and look at it from various perspectives:

Ethics, Safety, Prevention of Vision Loss, Prevention of Harm, Duty to Disclose, Human Rights.

JanieDough wrote:

Harley has shown his true identity.....at last.

How droll that he is, again, the center of attention.

were you talking to me?

wishandaprayer's picture

harleyman-6 wrote: I have a

harleyman-6 wrote:

I have a great topic for a CME.

C ME and Bill and Lloyd, and what happened to us, and look at it from various perspectives:

Ethics, Safety, Prevention of Vision Loss, Prevention of Harm, Duty to Disclose, Human Rights.

CME's are an exercise to prove that you are competent and interested in life long learning. But, you really don't care much about compentency or learning when you discard what really needs to be learned, in my opinion.

What needs to be learned from what happened to Jane?

It shows me that CMEs are just smoke and mirrors.

JanieDough's picture

harleyman-6 wrote: bones

harleyman-6 wrote:
bones wrote:

Janes Death could have been announced without linkking it to the obit column that has more explicit detail. As much as Jane was for patient rights I am sure she was also for patient privacy and unless I see a written consent from her giving permission to release not only her records but her identity I am sorry but NONE of you especially John can excuse releasing her identity this way.Otherwise you are all assuming "implied consent" and you cannot know that..unless you had a Pm from her relating to doing this or from her immediate family how can you justify this. I find it interesting that if a DOCTOR did this with a patients info you all would be screaming about it yet it is ok for Joe public to do the same just because you are not members of a governing body. Has anyone bothered to check the legalities of this..maybe you should because seriously I do NOT think this is legal.

Yup...talk about a HIPPA violation...

Marketing personal medical records is ok by HIPPA rules so what do these rules really mean...I can do what I please as I am GOD!

JanieDough's picture

harleyman-6

harleyman-6 wrote:
wishandaprayer wrote:

I have a great topic for a CME.

C ME and Bill and Lloyd, and what happened to us, and look at it from various perspectives:

Ethics, Safety, Prevention of Vision Loss, Prevention of Harm, Duty to Disclose, Human Rights.

JanieDough wrote:

Harley has shown his true identity.....at last.

How droll that he is, again, the center of attention.

were you talking to me?

Good Lord, no! I want an intelligent discussion. Exactly how many times have you been banned? It appears you are an extremely slow learner. I hope your career in life does not involve anything important.

Now shove off!

abusedemotionally's picture

harleyman-6 wrote: So you're

harleyman-6 wrote:

So you're saying, that seeking the proper method to do things, is a sign of supporting a cover-up? really?.....a tad bit conspiratorial.

Huh?? Puzzled Puzzled I am saying that if one has proof that wrongdoing *was* done, then it is the responsibility of the medical board/college to look at the proof at "face value." But when they sweep evidence under the rug and don't make the doctor accountable, it is not right for the patient that was injured or for future patients that he is treating. It also lowers the "standard of care" to a substandard.

harleyman-6 wrote:

If Marie has so much first hand info, then an estate attorney should have little if any difficulty providing Marie with authorization. She can then do as she wishes.

As I have no knowledge as to this situation, I defer comment.

harleyman-6 wrote:

I have reviewed those records. I have my opinions privately. I expressed what I thought about the "void d/c" slip publicly. My comments were selectively interpreted, and I was flammed. It seems the same clique find what I say "offensive"...and that's fine. It says a lot. It's your forum, enjoy it. But it's not indicative of the real world where freedom of speech abounds.

Well you do know how to make people bristle . . . Harleyman-6 . . .

harleyman-6 wrote:

And judges/juries are impartial.

I was speaking of medical boards/colleges . . . not the courts.

It has been "my" experience that these doctors who look into complaints are NOT impartial. They are anything but.

I was labelled by Dr. Keriem to have been a "difficult" patient. This so called "impartial" investigator (a surgeon) took Dr. Keriem's word for *everything* he said . . . even when I had proof otherwise. Just to give you a small smattering of what was a "fair" investigation:

- I had proof that Dr. Keriem sanitized my medical record. Any cooperation on my part was taken out and replaced with my being seen to be lying, noncompliance and refusing third party help. Dr. Keriem has listed several times, within my medical chart, that I was refusing to take antidepressants or lying about having taken them. I have pharmacy records to show that in a 3 1/2 year period, I faithfully bought these antidepressants, with the exception of 3 months, after I had a real serious side-effect to one. Dr. Keriem's response to this decrepancy, was that he wrote only what I told him. Why would I lie and say I wasn't taking antidepressants when I was??? And why would I buy them and not take them??? I had no reason to lie.

- I had proof that I was willing to go to see third party help. Dr. Keriem has written that he had sent my husband and me to see a social worker for counseling and that after going a few times, that I refused to go and my husband went on his own. I have proof directly from the social worker that this was false information . As well, two letters from her that showed that I was seeing her are gone from my medical record. I have copies of these letters.

- I had proof that I was seeing a psychologist and that we came to a mutual agreement that I stop seeing her. My issues of sexual abuse were beyond her scope. Dr. Keriem has me stopping these sessions too soon and refusing to go back to see her. He has taken out the letter that he was sent by the psychologist, whereby she is stating that we had come to this mutual decision.

- To the above two incidents, Dr. Keriem said that he did not know why he never got these letters or why they are not included in my medical record. The investigator asked Dr. Keriem that if my "confusion" was due to his shoddy file keeping.

- Dr. Keriem had told me that he would make me a referral to someone who had the expertise in sexual abuse issues. My e-mails (seen by the investigator as "information overload")to Dr. Keriem where I am pleading for him to make this referral are gone. He told the investigator these were irreverent to my care. During the course of the investigation, the investigator did not address why Dr. Keriem refused to make this referral, but rather asked him if these e-mails could have been a "boundary issue." Pleas for help are "boundary issues??????" Also, in response to my first complaint, Dr. Keriem has stated that I wanted "him and only him" to treat the abuse issues I had, where these e-mails pointedly show otherwise. Again, no questions were asked of this discrepancy in reporting.

- The investigator allowed that Dr. Keriem re-wrote my record because of transfer problems between one computer and another. They tried to tell me that electronic records was a "new innovation." This "new innovation" whereby software protocols are stipulated that an audit trail *must* exist was in the College's policies for 8 years. 8 years . . . and it is *new*???

- They also saw that Dr. Keriem was trying to spare my feelings, when he admitted to re-writing my file manually, so that I wouldn't be upset by a "computer print-out date." Now we have two re-written files, and NO original. He told the investigator that he had the original file wiped clean by a professional. If I was not a psychiatric patient, do you think that a doctor would get away the lame excuse of re-writing a record to "spare a patient's feelings?"

There was so much more . . . Shocked that I could write pages about it here.

So please don't speak to me about "impartial" investigations into wrongdoing. The investigation reeked of stigma, discrimination, prejudice, unethical practices, breach of policies . . . Where is "accountability"?

As it may be related to Janes circumstance, I believe that *we* are more "impartial" in looking at the facts and "we" can see truth where a doctor *may* look for "reasons" around substandard care.

JanieDough's picture

I have observed, personally,

I have observed, personally, a doctor remove paperwork from the file of a patient and wad it up and toss it into the trash.

Needless to say, I no longer am connected to this doctor as it occurred more than once. Too bad I was not proactive and, after he left the room, removed these pages from the trash.

I would now....in a heartbeat....no matter who the patient or who the doctor.

Doing the right thing is always best. It is not always easy...but it is right.

The hardest part was the concept of betraying my employer. The easy part was knowing I was doing what I must.

I reported him.

abusedemotionally's picture

EDIT: As the edit button is

EDIT: As the edit button is no longer there.

"So please don't speak to me about "impartial" investigations into wrongdoing. The investigation reeked of stigma, discrimination, prejudice, unethical practices, breach of policies . . . Where is "accountability"?"

Should read:

"So please don't speak to me about "impartial" investigations into wrongdoing. The investigation reeked of stigma, discrimination, prejudice and the allowance of unethical practices, breach of policies . . . Where is "accountability"?

harleyman-6's picture

abusedemotionally wrote: As

abusedemotionally wrote:

As it may be related to Janes circumstance, I believe that *we* are more "impartial" in looking at the facts and "we" can see truth where a doctor *may* look for "reasons" around substandard care.

Impartiality is the furthest thing many here are displaying. I base that on;
-the high degree of emotionality that so obviously exists.
-the fact that you've referred to her as a friend (that nulifies it right there)
-the implied bias that exists at the hands of those that deem they've ben previously wronged at the hands of the medical community.

you are not, by any stretch of the imagination....impartial.

As a result you will look to, and infer misjustice at any turn in the road you find.

No rationally thinking entity would give further consideration to your last comment.

wishandaprayer's picture

In order for a doctor to

In order for a doctor to understand what you are saying AE, he would have to have a heart.

JanieDough's picture

A not impartial poster

A not impartial poster chastising another poster for not being impartial (in their opinion).

Do discussions around here ever stay on track?

JanieDough's picture

wishandaprayer wrote: In

wishandaprayer wrote:

In order for a doctor to understand what you are saying AE, he would have to have a heart.

Be an independent thinker as well. Not always having to agree with the masses like a programmed robot.

wishandaprayer's picture

abusedemotionally

abusedemotionally wrote:
harleyman-6 wrote:

So you're saying, that seeking the proper method to do things, is a sign of supporting a cover-up? really?.....a tad bit conspiratorial.

Huh?? Puzzled Puzzled I am saying that if one has proof that wrongdoing *was* done, then it is the responsibility of the medical board/college to look at the proof at "face value." But when they sweep evidence under the rug and don't make the doctor accountable, it is not right for the patient that was injured or for future patients that he is treating. It also lowers the "standard of care" to a substandard.

harleyman-6 wrote:

If Marie has so much first hand info, then an estate attorney should have little if any difficulty providing Marie with authorization. She can then do as she wishes.

As I have no knowledge as to this situation, I defer comment.

harleyman-6 wrote:

I have reviewed those records. I have my opinions privately. I expressed what I thought about the "void d/c" slip publicly. My comments were selectively interpreted, and I was flammed. It seems the same clique find what I say "offensive"...and that's fine. It says a lot. It's your forum, enjoy it. But it's not indicative of the real world where freedom of speech abounds.

Well you do know how to make people bristle . . . Harleyman-6 . . .

harleyman-6 wrote:

And judges/juries are impartial.

I was speaking of medical boards/colleges . . . not the courts.

It has been "my" experience that these doctors who look into complaints are NOT impartial. They are anything but.

I was labelled by Dr. Keriem to have been a "difficult" patient. This so called "impartial" investigator (a surgeon) took Dr. Keriem's word for *everything* he said . . . even when I had proof otherwise. Just to give you a small smattering of what was a "fair" investigation:

- I had proof that Dr. Keriem sanitized my medical record. Any cooperation on my part was taken out and replaced with my being seen to be lying, noncompliance and refusing third party help. Dr. Keriem has listed several times, within my medical chart, that I was refusing to take antidepressants or lying about having taken them. I have pharmacy records to show that in a 3 1/2 year period, I faithfully bought these antidepressants, with the exception of 3 months, after I had a real serious side-effect to one. Dr. Keriem's response to this decrepancy, was that he wrote only what I told him. Why would I lie and say I wasn't taking antidepressants when I was??? And why would I buy them and not take them??? I had no reason to lie.

- I had proof that I was willing to go to see third party help. Dr. Keriem has written that he had sent my husband and me to see a social worker for counseling and that after going a few times, that I refused to go and my husband went on his own. I have proof directly from the social worker that this was false information . As well, two letters from her that showed that I was seeing her are gone from my medical record. I have copies of these letters.

- I had proof that I was seeing a psychologist and that we came to a mutual agreement that I stop seeing her. My issues of sexual abuse were beyond her scope. Dr. Keriem has me stopping these sessions too soon and refusing to go back to see her. He has taken out the letter that he was sent by the psychologist, whereby she is stating that we had come to this mutual decision.

- To the above two incidents, Dr. Keriem said that he did not know why he never got these letters or why they are not included in my medical record. The investigator asked Dr. Keriem that if my "confusion" was due to his shoddy file keeping.

- Dr. Keriem had told me that he would make me a referral to someone who had the expertise in sexual abuse issues. My e-mails (seen by the investigator as "information overload")to Dr. Keriem where I am pleading for him to make this referral are gone. He told the investigator these were irreverent to my care. During the course of the investigation, the investigator did not address why Dr. Keriem refused to make this referral, but rather asked him if these e-mails could have been a "boundary issue." Pleas for help are "boundary issues??????" Also, in response to my first complaint, Dr. Keriem has stated that I wanted "him and only him" to treat the abuse issues I had, where these e-mails pointedly show otherwise. Again, no questions were asked of this discrepancy in reporting.

- The investigator allowed that Dr. Keriem re-wrote my record because of transfer problems between one computer and another. They tried to tell me that electronic records was a "new innovation." This "new innovation" whereby software protocols are stipulated that an audit trail *must* exist was in the College's policies for 8 years. 8 years . . . and it is *new*???

- They also saw that Dr. Keriem was trying to spare my feelings, when he admitted to re-writing my file manually, so that I wouldn't be upset by a "computer print-out date." Now we have two re-written files, and NO original. He told the investigator that he had the original file wiped clean by a professional. If I was not a psychiatric patient, do you think that a doctor would get away the lame excuse of re-writing a record to "spare a patient's feelings?"

There was so much more . . . Shocked that I could write pages about it here.

So please don't speak to me about "impartial" investigations into wrongdoing. The investigation reeked of stigma, discrimination, prejudice, unethical practices, breach of policies . . . Where is "accountability"?

As it may be related to Janes circumstance, I believe that *we* are more "impartial" in looking at the facts and "we" can see truth where a doctor *may* look for "reasons" around substandard care.

The College did a fine job, eh Harley?

wishandaprayer's picture

NO TRANSPARENCY, NO ETHICS,

NO TRANSPARENCY, NO ETHICS, NO ACCOUNTABILITY, NO PATIENT SAFETY.

wishandaprayer's picture

Yes Doctors - that's exactly

Yes Doctors - that's exactly what Jane would have wanted.

heartthrob's picture

harleyman-6

harleyman-6 wrote:

Yup...talk about a HIPPA violation...

If you're going to act the expert, at least get it right, HM.

http://www.hipaa.org/

wishandaprayer's picture

What mattered most to Jane

What mattered most to Jane was her privacy? Nothing mattered more than that? Puzzled

Her ego was as big as a doctor's? Sticking out tongue

Or is it that she just fought better than any of you, and so you think that she would think like you? Laughing out loud

But, she was a girl, and don't forget: Girls just wanna have fun. Eye-wink

So - let Jane have her fun. Let Jane have her justice. Smiling

Let Jane have the last word. Eye-wink Smiling

What happened to her, should not have happened, and people need to learn from it.

Education isn't free. I believe that Jane would pay the cost.

Anyways, the cost has been paid. Jane has been outted.

So - since the price has been paid, what's she gonna get for it?

She's a woman. She wouldn't like to get ripped off.

And thinking with only your heads, and not your hearts is a complete rip-off, in my opinion. Smiling

abusedemotionally's picture

harleyman-6

harleyman-6 wrote:
abusedemotionally wrote:

As it may be related to Janes circumstance, I believe that *we* are more "impartial" in looking at the facts and "we" can see truth where a doctor *may* look for "reasons" around substandard care.

Impartiality is the furthest thing many here are displaying. I base that on;
-the high degree of emotionality that so obviously exists.
-the fact that you've referred to her as a friend (that nulifies it right there)
-the implied bias that exists at the hands of those that deem they've ben previously wronged at the hands of the medical community.

you are not, by any stretch of the imagination....impartial.

As a result you will look to, and infer misjustice at any turn in the road you find.

No rationally thinking entity would give further consideration to your last comment.

Maybe you do have a point here. Would I be looking *hard* to see if an injustice was done. You bet!! Especially given the way that Jane was treated. But if I were to have found something which I thought was *wrong* in her records, I would want to see a thorough and *honest* investigation done. One that was *impartial* . . . not by another doctor who allows excuses, no matter how lame, to dismiss a negligent act.

The only answer to this, as I can see it, is having someone who is not a doctor or employed by the medical board/college, to look into it. Someone who holds no biases and will look at the facts and only the facts. The problem that arises is that they need a medical background, and how likely would it be to find such a person who is not a doctor?

harleyman-6's picture

abusedemotionally

abusedemotionally wrote:
harleyman-6 wrote:
abusedemotionally wrote:

As it may be related to Janes circumstance, I believe that *we* are more "impartial" in looking at the facts and "we" can see truth where a doctor *may* look for "reasons" around substandard care.

Impartiality is the furthest thing many here are displaying. I base that on;
-the high degree of emotionality that so obviously exists.
-the fact that you've referred to her as a friend (that nulifies it right there)
-the implied bias that exists at the hands of those that deem they've ben previously wronged at the hands of the medical community.

you are not, by any stretch of the imagination....impartial.

As a result you will look to, and infer misjustice at any turn in the road you find.

No rationally thinking entity would give further consideration to your last comment.

Maybe you do have a point here. Would I be looking *hard* to see if an injustice was done. You bet!! Especially given the way that Jane was treated. But if I were to have found something which I thought was *wrong* in her records, I would want to see a thorough and *honest* investigation done. One that was *impartial* . . . not by another doctor who allows excuses, no matter how lame, to dismiss a negligent act.

The only answer to this, as I can see it, is having someone who is not a doctor or employed by the medical board/college, to look into it. Someone who holds no biases and will look at the facts and only the facts. The problem that arises is that they need a medical background, and how likely would it be to find such a person who is not a doctor?

Gee, thanks. I made a point...Let the others know that Eye-wink .

I can't disagree with you. At "truely" impartial board would not consist of a doctor's presence...but;
who judges attorney malpractice?
who judges engineering mistakes
who judges football games (former players)

education in the field is required for aan adequate understanding of a given situation...So bias will always be perceived. It is up to the medical professional to have a higher ethical standard in order to achieve the unbiased state....

heartthrob's picture

harleyman-6 wrote: It is up

harleyman-6 wrote:

It is up to the medical professional to have a higher ethical standard in order to achieve the unbiased state....

If you're looking to find strictly another doctor with these 'higher ethical standards, and absence of bias, that would be extremely hard to find. A needle in a haystack!!!!!

abusedemotionally's picture

harleyman-6

harleyman-6 wrote:
abusedemotionally wrote:
harleyman-6 wrote:
abusedemotionally wrote:

As it may be related to Janes circumstance, I believe that *we* are more "impartial" in looking at the facts and "we" can see truth where a doctor *may* look for "reasons" around substandard care.

Impartiality is the furthest thing many here are displaying. I base that on;
-the high degree of emotionality that so obviously exists.
-the fact that you've referred to her as a friend (that nulifies it right there)
-the implied bias that exists at the hands of those that deem they've ben previously wronged at the hands of the medical community.

you are not, by any stretch of the imagination....impartial.

As a result you will look to, and infer misjustice at any turn in the road you find.

No rationally thinking entity would give further consideration to your last comment.

Maybe you do have a point here. Would I be looking *hard* to see if an injustice was done. You bet!! Especially given the way that Jane was treated. But if I were to have found something which I thought was *wrong* in her records, I would want to see a thorough and *honest* investigation done. One that was *impartial* . . . not by another doctor who allows excuses, no matter how lame, to dismiss a negligent act.

The only answer to this, as I can see it, is having someone who is not a doctor or employed by the medical board/college, to look into it. Someone who holds no biases and will look at the facts and only the facts. The problem that arises is that they need a medical background, and how likely would it be to find such a person who is not a doctor?

Gee, thanks. I made a point...Let the others know that Eye-wink .

I can't disagree with you. At "truely" impartial board would not consist of a doctor's presence...but;
who judges attorney malpractice?
who judges engineering mistakes
who judges football games (former players)

education in the field is required for aan adequate understanding of a given situation...So bias will always be perceived. It is up to the medical professional to have a higher ethical standard in order to achieve the unbiased state....

A master debater will concede when a point is raised that has merit. Sticking out tongue Evil Eye-wink

Giving this some more thought and trying to find a work-around to the problem of eliminating bias-- What if the investigation runs its course as usual BUT rather than bringing his decision to another doctor for consideration and approval, it goes to an "independent" entity who will look at this decision? If he/she sees problems with the investigation, then it cannot be approved until the issue(s) are rectified. This will likely keep a doctor who is doing the investigation to think twice before allowing biases to interfere.

wouldn't be biased if the

wouldn't be biased if the physician reviewing the case was not associated with any party involved. the patient, the hospital etc.

hubby does independent reviews for disability claims. he is not direct care provider, rather reviews the medical information available, and sometimes video of patient.
nor does he make the decision, rather renders an opinion based upon the medical chart.

possible to have unbiased review of chart by a qualified physician.. imho

abusedemotionally's picture

noonespecial wrote: wouldn't

noonespecial wrote:

wouldn't be biased if the physician reviewing the case was not associated with any party involved. the patient, the hospital etc.

hubby does independent reviews for disability claims. he is not direct care provider, rather reviews the medical information available, and sometimes video of patient.
nor does he make the decision, rather renders an opinion based upon the medical chart.

possible to have unbiased review of chart by a qualified physician.. imho

It may be possible, Special . . . but not always done. Sad

harleyman-6

harleyman-6 wrote:
noonespecial wrote:
harleyman-6 wrote:
noonespecial wrote:

hmm... is hippa applicable to non medical entity... is it illegal for a friend to speak of detail of someone's health?.. i will have to look that one up... doesnt hippa protect the patient from doc/nurse/tech/insurance carrier revealing info?.

No it's not..I was referring to Bones comment about if a doctor did it..

and there in lies the ethical dilemma for you both.. YOU are bound.. the public is not and unless someone related to Jane complains.. well.. is it illegal?

So, how do you exlain this varying degree of ethical dilemma...A little while ago, my ethic "level" was pretty low because of this....now it's suddenly, pointedly noted?

It also denotes the double standard that exists...

i have no explaination. i didnt say your level was low, or noted, i just acknowledge that i can understand the ethics question you and bones have as a physician.. that does entail "higher" expectations. i have some question myself, but am somewhat exempt from the expectation of having ethics. imho

heartthrob's picture

I don't see why the person

I don't see why the person doing the review has to be an MD, and if so at least it should be one who specializes in medical ethics.

hcm mare's picture

Caution: this is a rant

Caution: this is a rant against stupid, inconsiderate and goading posters:
Although I have found comfort in getting to know many of the people here, it seems that the critiquing about my actions concerning Jane Q have overshadowed the intent in joining together for a common cause - Jane Q's final wish.
I promised Jane that I would work to prevent what happened to her from happening to others. I was her health care proxy - she had no relative to call, no friend to let know she was in the hospital, and no one to inform about her death. I was her health care proxy and made a life and death decision for her.
This isn't some abstract textbook case about outing someone on a forum, forum rules, controlling other people's thoughts, speculating about MY legal authority or the legal consequences I would face with some thinly veiled feigning of "protection" to Jane's rights or my peril. This is not a place to get back at a dead woman who apparently ran intellectual circles around those of you here who are narrow-minded and biased.
For as long as I've known Jane, she was on her own completely, an activist who was outspoken about justice, and was fiercely independent. She was a remarkable woman. And if any one of you thinks you knew her better than I, I would have to disagree. I SPENT HER DYING DAYS WITH HER and I BURIED THE WOMAN - ALONE!

I think many of the statements here regarding Jane or what I've done to Jane after her passing are petty. And at this point, I agree that because of goading from some on this site, asking for proof, etc., I fell into a trap by providing medical records to a few who asked me to who "needed to know both sides" thinking that would be fair. Well, apparently, I'm the only one who is being fair. Even those who asked for the records are now appalled that I let them have them. Maybe they thought they may see some juicy facts about her that they could revel in. So I failed Jane in that respect. Someone told me not to give Harley the records, and they were right. Except for one thing - Jane expressed the truth and was as forthright a person as one could meet. There WERE no juicy details. Just exactly what was already printed in the newspaper was in those med records.

I have better things to do with my time than to watch the infighting here.
Thank you to those of you who have been writing to the contacts I listed and to those who have supported my efforts to pursue fulfilling Jane's last wishes. I will keep you informed about the proceedings in another way.
I am now only going to start threads that are seriously going to get us to that goal, and I will not be subscribing to any other threads here. And if my thread starts to get nasty, and stupid, because of nasty stupid posters, I'll shut it down, and start another. Three times only, then I'm gone.
I have absolutely NOTHING to gain personally from doing what I have done to further Jane's cause of protecting others, and I don't need the aggravation from trollers and nay-sayers on this site. So if you see a thread posted by me, please stick to the point and contribute constructive input or stay away.
And as for your concern for my legal standing, thanks a lot.

abusedemotionally's picture

heartthrob wrote: I don't

heartthrob wrote:

I don't see why the person doing the review has to be an MD, and if so at least it should be one who specializes in medical ethics.

Another possibility . . .

Carry on with usual practice of investigating complaints, but have an unaffiliated "auditor" (for the lack of a better word) who will do "surprise" checks and look at how these complaints were handled, ensuring that "fair" investigations took place.

abusedemotionally's picture

hcm mare wrote: Caution:

hcm mare wrote:

Caution: this is a rant against stupid, inconsiderate and goading posters:

I believe that you are justified in how you feel.

damagedgoods's picture

Can this poor lady have no

Can this poor lady have no dignity? She didn’t have the resources to fight before and certainly does not now except for what hcm mare is trying to accomplish and well wishes by other posters.

Bones, out of respect, I would delete the thread. You could make one up on identites being revealed in general. I know what happened to you and I also had personal information given out about me and had to take precautions for my own personal safety at an additional cost which I really didn’t have money to spend on.

Wisher, IMHO as you always say, I would delete yours too if it were me. Let this lady have some peace.

Hcm mare, I respect what you are trying to do and have done for this patient. If I had ideas, I’d give some. I’m just lost too in this mixed up system.

Edit: I don't mean poor as in no money. I mean poor as in a suffering soul.

harleyman-6's picture

noonespecial wrote: i have

noonespecial wrote:

i have no explaination. i didnt say your level was low, or noted, i just acknowledge that i can understand the ethics question you and bones have as a physician.. that does entail "higher" expectations. i have some question myself, but am somewhat exempt from the expectation of having ethics. imho

I know Noon...It's not you...I was raising the question b/c I knew you would geve me an honest ..unbiased:) Smiling :) answer

JanieDough's picture

Jane has dignity (as does

Jane has dignity (as does her friend). Dignity comes from within not from what or who surrounds you.

What Jane should have now is peace.

Her friend should have encouragement and support.

damagedgoods's picture

JanieDough wrote: Jane has

JanieDough wrote:

Jane has dignity (as does her friend). Dignity comes from within not from what or who surrounds you.

What Jane should have now is peace.

Her friend should have encouragement and support.

What I meant Janie is people are taking that away from her with rants.

what happened to me was

what happened to me was different because I chose to go to war with the site and lost and rightfully my identity was revealed ..too bad but Dont care now but THIS is different and honestly just bugs me that John allows it...just another example of the running this site poorly in my opinion. He should be editing and making sure this is in keeping with janes wishes...She was ALWAYS private on this blog and sorry just dont think she would want her ident revealed...JMHO.
Without knowing for sure it is unethical for sure...cant convince me otherwise...Her responses and posts give insight to her innner feelings and emotions which how do we know she wanted THAT connected with her REAL ID.???

damagedgoods's picture

bones wrote: what happened

bones wrote:

what happened to me was different because I chose to go to war with the site and lost and rightfully my identity was revealed ..too bad but Dont care now but THIS is different and honestly just bugs me that John allows it...just another example of the running this site poorly in my opinion. He should be editing and making sure this is in keeping with janes wishes...She was ALWAYS private on this blog and sorry just dont think she would want her ident revealed...JMHO.
Without knowing for sure it is unethical for sure...cant convince me otherwise...Her responses and posts give insight to her innner feelings and emotions which how do we know she wanted THAT connected with her REAL ID.???

I'm not going to argue who is right or wrong. My first impression was should this be happening when I first saw the identity revealed? It was not by hcm mare. I thought no. People do need to consider legalities especially when there is malpractice involved and maybe some people just don't know. But it is a safety issue to be considered.

harleyman-6's picture

bones wrote: what happened

bones wrote:

what happened to me was different because I chose to go to war with the site and lost and rightfully my identity was revealed ..too bad but Dont care now but THIS is different and honestly just bugs me that John allows it...just another example of the running this site poorly in my opinion. He should be editing and making sure this is in keeping with janes wishes...She was ALWAYS private on this blog and sorry just dont think she would want her ident revealed...JMHO.
Without knowing for sure it is unethical for sure...cant convince me otherwise...Her responses and posts give insight to her innner feelings and emotions which how do we know she wanted THAT connected with her REAL ID.???

Bones, it appears that your concerns are either negated or made to be less significant at the hands of people looking to incite arguement. You have posted perfectly reasonable, morally, ethically and even possibly legal reasons to procede cautiously.

Others are simply using status as friendship gained via annonymous posts as a basis for knowledge of JaneQ and what they think she would want. But little else.

You're right for standing your ground and sticking to you beliefs.

I agree HCM, this whole sordid affair has don't little for Jane, and has completely negated the original purpose of the forum. What responses have you gotten from the government agencies you've contacted, and what from the hospital?

Med101's picture

The road to hell is paved

The road to hell is paved with good intentions! I agree that Jane vehemently championed those who had been hurt by the medical community, and that she was loved by many on this forum.

What I don't believe is that this site will suffer because her identity was revealed. The only person who might suffer, is the person who in one post, said Jane was a very private person. In another post, she wrote that she was just an acquaintance of the woman we knew as JaneQ. In yet another post, this woman states that she thought Jane had a mother and brother somewhere. There are times when greed takes over and family members forget they've been estranged from the deseased. These people, if they exists, can see $$$$ coming their way, especially if that money can be had from suing a hospital, physicians and/or the poster. This site isn't legally responsible for what is written here, however, the poster is completely responsible.

Bones, as far as the ethical dilemma: There are times when ethics should apply but are not, and times when ethics should be discarded for the better good and are not.

heartthrob's picture

bones wrote: what happened

bones wrote:

what happened to me was different because I chose to go to war with the site and lost and rightfully my identity was revealed ..too bad but Dont care now but THIS is different and honestly just bugs me that John allows it...just another example of the running this site poorly in my opinion. He should be editing and making sure this is in keeping with janes wishes...She was ALWAYS private on this blog and sorry just dont think she would want her ident revealed...JMHO.
Without knowing for sure it is unethical for sure...cant convince me otherwise...Her responses and posts give insight to her innner feelings and emotions which how do we know she wanted THAT connected with her REAL ID.???

Well, why don't you just keep your notsoHO to yourself? You and HM have a way of screwing up everything. Like you would know what Jane may have wanted!!! ROFLMAO!
You two are the last opinions she would have cared about.

I am the person who asked Mare not to send Jane's notes to HM. What nerve for him to request them and then to suggest that her rights to privacy have been violated!! What a jerk. Acts as though he knows all about HIPAA rules and then calls it HIPPA. LOL

Here Hardlyman:
HIPAA:
The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act

You both have really helped matters along immensely. I'm sure Jane would appreciate your efforts, and your input ~ ass always.

MicOnTheNorthShore's picture

bones wrote: ..too bad but

bones wrote:

..too bad but Dont care now but THIS is different and honestly just bugs me that John allows it...just another example of the running this site poorly in my opinion. He should be editing and making sure this is in keeping with janes wishes...She was ALWAYS private on this blog and sorry just dont think she would want her ident revealed...JMHO.

Bones, read US Title 41, Communications Decency Act (Section 230), and you'll see why John cannot "edit", other than removing selected posts for very specific reasons.

harleyman-6's picture

heartthrob wrote: Well, why

heartthrob wrote:

Well, why don't you just keep your notsoHO to yourself? You and HM have a way of screwing up everything. Like you would know what Jane may have wanted!!! ROFLMAO!
You two are the last opinions she would have cared about.

I am the person who asked Mare not to send Jane's notes to HM.

OMG. You are so rude.
Bias; personified.

Only your opinion, and ones like it count.
Unbelievable. Everone else be damned.

He is not a jerk for asking

He is not a jerk for asking for the records..just very savy. Like going through with the purchase of a product with false advertising then going to the better business bureau with a complaint...Heaven help the person that released these records because if they were Emailed to Harley or whoever...all he has to do is go to the family or authority representing her...estranged or not and the person in posession may be open to legal issues. What if there is a law suit against UMass and it is discovered the documents were procured without consent...they might damage janes case because the evidence may be dismissed. Maybe she does or doesnot have a case but bottom line how these records were obtained and released has HUGE implications to the person who got them and to whom they are released. I think this whole thing is going to blow up huge and NOT for the reasons jane would have wished it to and unfortunately may get the one person trying to help her into deep deep trouble...JMHO

heartthrob's picture

Jane used to send me lots of

Jane used to send me lots of emails. They were long diatribes, kibitzing about things on the forum. Ninety percent of what she wrote was laughing at bones and hardleyman!!! So I sincerely doubt that anything you say is going to concern her overly much.

Why she's up there laughing at you right now!!!

wishandaprayer's picture

Boy - I wish that Jane were

Boy - I wish that Jane were alive and here to put you two doctors in your place.

heartthrob's picture

harleyman-6

harleyman-6 wrote:
heartthrob wrote:

Well, why don't you just keep your notsoHO to yourself? You and HM have a way of screwing up everything. Like you would know what Jane may have wanted!!! ROFLMAO!
You two are the last opinions she would have cared about.

I am the person who asked Mare not to send Jane's notes to HM.

OMG. You are so rude.
Bias; personified.

Only your opinion, and ones like it count.
Unbelievable. Everone else be damned.

You were in such a big hurry to reply, that you missed half of my post, HM!!!

Here's the whole thing. You need it so you can have a HIPAA lesson:

ME wrote:

Well, why don't you just keep your notsoHO to yourself? You and HM have a way of screwing up everything. Like you would know what Jane may have wanted!!! ROFLMAO!
You two are the last opinions she would have cared about.

I am the person who asked Mare not to send Jane's notes to HM. What nerve for him to request them and then to suggest that her rights to privacy have been violated!! What a jerk. Acts as though he knows all about HIPAA rules and then calls it HIPPA. LOL

Here Hardlyman:
HIPAA:
The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act

You both have really helped matters along immensely. I'm sure Jane would appreciate your efforts, and your input ~ ass always.

wow. again, wow. Hcm is

wow. again, wow. Hcm is attempting to fullfill Jane Q's wishes of rallying against the indignant and unhuman treatment of patients in medical facility , namely ER's. Now part of the issue that some posters, including myself have is the disclosure of her date of birth, name, city. and the facility this occurred. Jane keeping a private diary of her experiences, names dates etc would be better served in the hands of an attorney to pursue legal action on her behalf. having the knowledge she has died and the circumstances surrounding her death could very well of been revealed without other identifying information. Jane apparently also scanned her records, (btw not legal in some areas without the facility or physician knowledge etc). Yes there are several governing bodies in play here.
Reasonable questions have been raised. 1) disclosure of information on a public forum. that very well may inhibit exactly what Jane wanted to accomplish... TO EFFECT A CHANGE IN THE DELIVERY OF MEDICAL CARE AND THE COMMUNICATION BETWEEN PATIENT/PHYSICIAN. 2) possible legal ramification to the posters revealing such information. 3) the disclosure of the real name of a poster who rarely if ever accepted PM from other posters. As i have said previously.. Jane invited you into her world, you did not invade. Would she interpret all this as an invasion of her world/privacy??.. does her right to privacy end with her last breath?...
personally i feel some posters are so bitter with the personal experiences they have had with the outcomes of their own experience it has tainted the ability to objectively view situations. i am not passing judgement, i can understand the bitterness. what i dont understand is the immediate dismissal of valid views because the person holding the view is a doctor. No where have i read from either bones or HM that they see the facility and the doctors as correct. or that change is not needed. or what happened to jane was justified or acceptable or standard of care.
what i have seen is legitimate concern for the information being dispersed and the invasion of privacy it represents. these are also posters who wether you trust them or not, believe them or not, respect them or not. are in a position daily of protecting not only their patients health, their health information and their IDENTITY as well as financial information.
I will repeat what my first reply to bones was on this thread... if at the end of all this, if the discomfort this has caused initiates some level of change for all of us as individuals in our day to day communications with our own doctors and facilities and for those docs on here to maybe listen a little more to their patients. and work toward collaboration would it be worth it?

JanieDough's picture

damagedgoods

damagedgoods wrote:
JanieDough wrote:

Jane has dignity (as does her friend). Dignity comes from within not from what or who surrounds you.

What Jane should have now is peace.

Her friend should have encouragement and support.

What I meant Janie is people are taking that away from her with rants.

Oh, sweetie. The ranting people are only making themselves look like jerks.

I do understand what you mean, however. It is gracious of you to wish dignity for Jane. Not many people are that compassionate. It is wonderful there are still people like you in this world...for that I am grateful.

harleyman-6's picture

noonespecial wrote: wow.

noonespecial wrote:

wow. again, wow. Hcm is attempting to fullfill Jane Q's wishes of rallying against the indignant and unhuman treatment of patients in medical facility , namely ER's. Now part of the issue that some posters, including myself have is the disclosure of her date of birth, name, city. and the facility this occurred. Jane keeping a private diary of her experiences, names dates etc would be better served in the hands of an attorney to pursue legal action on her behalf. having the knowledge she has died and the circumstances surrounding her death could very well of been revealed without other identifying information. Jane apparently also scanned her records, (btw not legal in some areas without the facility or physician knowledge etc). Yes there are several governing bodies in play here.
Reasonable questions have been raised. 1) disclosure of information on a public forum. that very well may inhibit exactly what Jane wanted to accomplish... TO EFFECT A CHANGE IN THE DELIVERY OF MEDICAL CARE AND THE COMMUNICATION BETWEEN PATIENT/PHYSICIAN. 2) possible legal ramification to the posters revealing such information. 3) the disclosure of the real name of a poster who rarely if ever accepted PM from other posters. As i have said previously.. Jane invited you into her world, you did not invade. Would she interpret all this as an invasion of her world/privacy??.. does her right to privacy end with her last breath?...
personally i feel some posters are so bitter with the personal experiences they have had with the outcomes of their own experience it has tainted the ability to objectively view situations. i am not passing judgement, i can understand the bitterness. what i dont understand is the immediate dismissal of valid views because the person holding the view is a doctor. No where have i read from either bones or HM that they see the facility and the doctors as correct. or that change is not needed. or what happened to jane was justified or acceptable or standard of care.
what i have seen is legitimate concern for the information being dispersed and the invasion of privacy it represents. these are also posters who wether you trust them or not, believe them or not, respect them or not. are in a position daily of protecting not only their patients health, their health information and their IDENTITY as well as financial information.
I will repeat what my first reply to bones was on this thread... if at the end of all this, if the discomfort this has caused initiates some level of change for all of us as individuals in our day to day communications with our own doctors and facilities and for those docs on here to maybe listen a little more to their patients. and work toward collaboration would it be worth it?

A-freaking-men !!!!
Thank you, for that eloquent post.
You hit, every point.

wishandaprayer's picture

You are very right special

You are very right special when you mention that objectivity is lost; I know that I start to see red when doctors talk about "ethics", because I think that what happened to Lloyd, Bill, myself and others was very unethical.

JanieDough's picture

Give him time, he will

Give him time, he will change his mind and make you his next target.....no matter who you happen to be or your position in life.

LOL!

heartthrob's picture

Special wrote: Now part of

Special wrote:

Now part of the issue that some posters, including myself have is the disclosure of her date of birth, name, city. and the facility this occurred.

Hardleyman wrote:

A-freaking-men !!!!

Special, what possible difference can her date of birth, name, city and facility make? Is she going to be crushed because people know those things? What am I missing?

They wanted specifics and now are acting as though a felony had been committed when information is given.

heartthrob wrote: Special

heartthrob wrote:
Special wrote:

Now part of the issue that some posters, including myself have is the disclosure of her date of birth, name, city. and the facility this occurred.

Hardleyman wrote:

A-freaking-men !!!!

Special, what possible difference can her date of birth, name, city and facility make? Is she going to be crushed because people know those things? What am I missing?

They wanted specifics and now are acting as though a felony had been committed when information is given.

specifics of care.. not person...

date of birth, name, city. IDENTITY THEFT
Facility---accusation of defamation or slander.

JanieDough wrote: Give him

JanieDough wrote:

Give him time, he will change his mind and make you his next target.....no matter who you happen to be or your position in life.

LOL!

I fear no man or bike. lol

damagedgoods's picture

noonespecial

noonespecial wrote:
heartthrob wrote:
Special wrote:

Now part of the issue that some posters, including myself have is the disclosure of her date of birth, name, city. and the facility this occurred.

Hardleyman wrote:

A-freaking-men !!!!

Special, what possible difference can her date of birth, name, city and facility make? Is she going to be crushed because people know those things? What am I missing?

They wanted specifics and now are acting as though a felony had been committed when information is given.

specifics of care.. not person...

date of birth, name, city. IDENTITY THEFT
Facility---accusation of defamation or slander.

Heart, what you are missing is there are real creeps out there. Did you ever hear of identities being stolen from dead people or missing people? Or even children who are not old enough to really use their SSN? By the time they are 18 or whatever to use it, they find out they are wanted or in debt. It's not even them. Common names, looks, etc. It happens. With the internet it is so dangerous. Why people would even post their pictures on a site like this is beyond me. It's never gone.

JanieDough's picture

damagedgoods

damagedgoods wrote:
noonespecial wrote:
heartthrob wrote:
Special wrote:

Now part of the issue that some posters, including myself have is the disclosure of her date of birth, name, city. and the facility this occurred.

Hardleyman wrote:

A-freaking-men !!!!

Special, what possible difference can her date of birth, name, city and facility make? Is she going to be crushed because people know those things? What am I missing?

They wanted specifics and now are acting as though a felony had been committed when information is given.

specifics of care.. not person...

date of birth, name, city. IDENTITY THEFT
Facility---accusation of defamation or slander.

Heart, what you are missing is there are real creeps out there. Did you ever hear of identities being stolen from dead people or missing people? Or even children who are not old enough to really use their SSN? By the time they are 18 or whatever to use it, they find out they are wanted or in debt. It's not even them. Common names, looks, etc. It happens. With the internet it is so dangerous. Why people would even post their pictures on a site like this is beyond me. It's never gone.

What shocked me was the fact in spite of requests to stop using Jane's real name, some posters just would not comply. Frankly, it appeared they were bent on ensuring the issue remained a hot one.

One place names are obtained for identity theft is the graveyard. It is not very hard to request another social security number. Some people who work there sell them "under the counter". Yes, some have been busted and arrested. It does not mean all have been caught.

heartthrob's picture

JanieDough

JanieDough wrote:
damagedgoods wrote:
noonespecial wrote:
heartthrob wrote:
Special wrote:

Now part of the issue that some posters, including myself have is the disclosure of her date of birth, name, city. and the facility this occurred.

Hardleyman wrote:

A-freaking-men !!!!

Special, what possible difference can her date of birth, name, city and facility make? Is she going to be crushed because people know those things? What am I missing?

They wanted specifics and now are acting as though a felony had been committed when information is given.

specifics of care.. not person...

date of birth, name, city. IDENTITY THEFT
Facility---accusation of defamation or slander.

Heart, what you are missing is there are real creeps out there. Did you ever hear of identities being stolen from dead people or missing people? Or even children who are not old enough to really use their SSN? By the time they are 18 or whatever to use it, they find out they are wanted or in debt. It's not even them. Common names, looks, etc. It happens. With the internet it is so dangerous. Why people would even post their pictures on a site like this is beyond me. It's never gone.

What shocked me was the fact in spite of requests to stop using Jane's real name, some posters just would not comply. Frankly, it appeared they were bent on ensuring the issue remained a hot one.

One place names are obtained for identity theft is the graveyard. It is not very hard to request another social security number. Some people who work there sell them "under the counter". Yes, some have been busted and arrested. It does not mean all have been caught.

That was the good doctors

Twain's picture

JanieDough wrote: I have

JanieDough wrote:

I have observed, personally, a doctor remove paperwork from the file of a patient and wad it up and toss it into the trash.

Let's not jump to conclusions so quickly. I have done just that MANY times.

- When the final lab report comes in, I throw out the preliminary result.

- When a patient calls for an appointment, my secretary writes on a paper why the patient made the appointment. I throw it out once the patient is in front of me.

- When a patient calls to tell my secretary what the problem is, she writes it on a paper (with the date stamped)and puts it on the chart. I review the problem and write on the paper what to tell the patient. When I see the patient next time, I review that interaction, write it in the chart, and add the outcome. I then discard the loose pieces of paper.

- I'm sure there are other situations when I wad and toss paperwork from the file of a patient, but I can't think of them now.

JanieDough's picture

Twain wrote: JanieDough

Twain wrote:
JanieDough wrote:

I have observed, personally, a doctor remove paperwork from the file of a patient and wad it up and toss it into the trash.

Let's not jump to conclusions so quickly. I have done just that MANY times.

- When the final lab report comes in, I throw out the preliminary result.

- When a patient calls for an appointment, my secretary writes on a paper why the patient made the appointment. I throw it out once the patient is in front of me.

- When a patient calls to tell my secretary what the problem is, she writes it on a paper (with the date stamped)and puts it on the chart. I review the problem and write on the paper what to tell the patient. When I see the patient next time, I review that interaction, write it in the chart, and add the outcome. I then discard the loose pieces of paper.

- I'm sure there are other situations when I wad and toss paperwork from the file of a patient, but I can't think of them now.

Don't YOU jump to conclusions, Twain! It is unbecoming at the least and foolish at best.

I was there each time. You were not. While I did not take the papers back out of the trash, I observed what was thrown out.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Twain's picture

JanieDough wrote: Twain

JanieDough wrote:
Twain wrote:
JanieDough wrote:

I have observed, personally, a doctor remove paperwork from the file of a patient and wad it up and toss it into the trash.

Let's not jump to conclusions so quickly. I have done just that MANY times.

- When the final lab report comes in, I throw out the preliminary result.

- When a patient calls for an appointment, my secretary writes on a paper why the patient made the appointment. I throw it out once the patient is in front of me.

- When a patient calls to tell my secretary what the problem is, she writes it on a paper (with the date stamped)and puts it on the chart. I review the problem and write on the paper what to tell the patient. When I see the patient next time, I review that interaction, write it in the chart, and add the outcome. I then discard the loose pieces of paper.

- I'm sure there are other situations when I wad and toss paperwork from the file of a patient, but I can't think of them now.

Don't YOU jump to conclusions, Twain! It is unbecoming at the least and foolish at best.

I was there each time. You were not. While I did not take the papers back out of the trash, I observed what was thrown out.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Every one of the papers I threw out were thrown into the trash. Have I done anything wrong in doing so?

JanieDough's picture

Twain wrote: JanieDough

Twain wrote:
JanieDough wrote:
Twain wrote:
JanieDough wrote:

I have observed, personally, a doctor remove paperwork from the file of a patient and wad it up and toss it into the trash.

Let's not jump to conclusions so quickly. I have done just that MANY times.

- When the final lab report comes in, I throw out the preliminary result.

- When a patient calls for an appointment, my secretary writes on a paper why the patient made the appointment. I throw it out once the patient is in front of me.

- When a patient calls to tell my secretary what the problem is, she writes it on a paper (with the date stamped)and puts it on the chart. I review the problem and write on the paper what to tell the patient. When I see the patient next time, I review that interaction, write it in the chart, and add the outcome. I then discard the loose pieces of paper.

- I'm sure there are other situations when I wad and toss paperwork from the file of a patient, but I can't think of them now.

Don't YOU jump to conclusions, Twain! It is unbecoming at the least and foolish at best.

I was there each time. You were not. While I did not take the papers back out of the trash, I observed what was thrown out.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Every one of the papers I threw out were thrown into the trash. Have I done anything wrong in doing so?

Does Twain's comment make him look smart or like a smart azz?

damagedgoods's picture

Twain wrote: JanieDough

Twain wrote:
JanieDough wrote:
Twain wrote:
JanieDough wrote:

I have observed, personally, a doctor remove paperwork from the file of a patient and wad it up and toss it into the trash.

Let's not jump to conclusions so quickly. I have done just that MANY times.

- When the final lab report comes in, I throw out the preliminary result.

- When a patient calls for an appointment, my secretary writes on a paper why the patient made the appointment. I throw it out once the patient is in front of me.

- When a patient calls to tell my secretary what the problem is, she writes it on a paper (with the date stamped)and puts it on the chart. I review the problem and write on the paper what to tell the patient. When I see the patient next time, I review that interaction, write it in the chart, and add the outcome. I then discard the loose pieces of paper.

- I'm sure there are other situations when I wad and toss paperwork from the file of a patient, but I can't think of them now.

Don't YOU jump to conclusions, Twain! It is unbecoming at the least and foolish at best.

I was there each time. You were not. While I did not take the papers back out of the trash, I observed what was thrown out.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Every one of the papers I threw out were thrown into the trash. Have I done anything wrong in doing so?

Well Twain, do you have a shredder? Do you have a company that has passed employees on theft tests? Do you know sticky notes don't always get shredded and end up in trash bins where homeless are or people who know how to get identity? One of the best ways for identity theft.

JanieDough's picture

Shall we respect Jane and go

Shall we respect Jane and go back to the discussion topic or just continue to banter back and forth?

I prefer to respect Jane and her efforts to improve the world...one step at a time.

Twain's picture

JanieDough wrote: Twain

JanieDough wrote:
Twain wrote:
JanieDough wrote:
Twain wrote:
JanieDough wrote:

I have observed, personally, a doctor remove paperwork from the file of a patient and wad it up and toss it into the trash.

Let's not jump to conclusions so quickly. I have done just that MANY times.

- When the final lab report comes in, I throw out the preliminary result.

- When a patient calls for an appointment, my secretary writes on a paper why the patient made the appointment. I throw it out once the patient is in front of me.

- When a patient calls to tell my secretary what the problem is, she writes it on a paper (with the date stamped)and puts it on the chart. I review the problem and write on the paper what to tell the patient. When I see the patient next time, I review that interaction, write it in the chart, and add the outcome. I then discard the loose pieces of paper.

- I'm sure there are other situations when I wad and toss paperwork from the file of a patient, but I can't think of them now.

Don't YOU jump to conclusions, Twain! It is unbecoming at the least and foolish at best.

I was there each time. You were not. While I did not take the papers back out of the trash, I observed what was thrown out.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Every one of the papers I threw out were thrown into the trash. Have I done anything wrong in doing so?

Does Twain's comment make him look smart or like a smart azz?

I don't even understand why you are upset about what I posted. It was not a criticism of anything you wrote. It was an explanation of possible reasons that a doctor can legitimately discard papers from a patient's chart.

damagedgoods's picture

Twain wrote: JanieDough

Twain wrote:
JanieDough wrote:
Twain wrote:
JanieDough wrote:
Twain wrote:
JanieDough wrote:

I have observed, personally, a doctor remove paperwork from the file of a patient and wad it up and toss it into the trash.

Let's not jump to conclusions so quickly. I have done just that MANY times.

- When the final lab report comes in, I throw out the preliminary result.

- When a patient calls for an appointment, my secretary writes on a paper why the patient made the appointment. I throw it out once the patient is in front of me.

- When a patient calls to tell my secretary what the problem is, she writes it on a paper (with the date stamped)and puts it on the chart. I review the problem and write on the paper what to tell the patient. When I see the patient next time, I review that interaction, write it in the chart, and add the outcome. I then discard the loose pieces of paper.

- I'm sure there are other situations when I wad and toss paperwork from the file of a patient, but I can't think of them now.

Don't YOU jump to conclusions, Twain! It is unbecoming at the least and foolish at best.

I was there each time. You were not. While I did not take the papers back out of the trash, I observed what was thrown out.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Every one of the papers I threw out were thrown into the trash. Have I done anything wrong in doing so?

Does Twain's comment make him look smart or like a smart azz?

I don't even understand why you are upset about what I posted. It was not a criticism of anything you wrote. It was an explanation of possible reasons that a doctor can legitimately discard papers from a patient's chart.

In my Humble Onion opinion, there is no excuse for laziness. Maybe the US is ahead of others for security.

harleyman-6's picture

Twain wrote: JanieDough

Twain wrote:
JanieDough wrote:

Put that in your pipe and smoke it

I don't even understand why you are upset about what I posted. It was not a criticism of anything you wrote. It was an explanation of possible reasons that a doctor can legitimately discard papers from a patient's chart.

Ohh...lookie lookie
Another doctor on the forum.....everyone grab yer pitchfork...only problem is you're leading a crowd of what 4-5 people...not much of a mob.

Twain, you're actually shocked you're getting tone from this one? that's her M.O.

here's a novel concept for a forum;
you can't say "shut up"
You can't call people names.....let's see how long that one lasts...

Twain's picture

damagedgoods wrote: Twain

damagedgoods wrote:
Twain wrote:
JanieDough wrote:
Twain wrote:
JanieDough wrote:
Twain wrote:
JanieDough wrote:

I have observed, personally, a doctor remove paperwork from the file of a patient and wad it up and toss it into the trash.

Let's not jump to conclusions so quickly. I have done just that MANY times.

- When the final lab report comes in, I throw out the preliminary result.

- When a patient calls for an appointment, my secretary writes on a paper why the patient made the appointment. I throw it out once the patient is in front of me.

- When a patient calls to tell my secretary what the problem is, she writes it on a paper (with the date stamped)and puts it on the chart. I review the problem and write on the paper what to tell the patient. When I see the patient next time, I review that interaction, write it in the chart, and add the outcome. I then discard the loose pieces of paper.

- I'm sure there are other situations when I wad and toss paperwork from the file of a patient, but I can't think of them now.

Don't YOU jump to conclusions, Twain! It is unbecoming at the least and foolish at best.

I was there each time. You were not. While I did not take the papers back out of the trash, I observed what was thrown out.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Every one of the papers I threw out were thrown into the trash. Have I done anything wrong in doing so?

Does Twain's comment make him look smart or like a smart azz?

I don't even understand why you are upset about what I posted. It was not a criticism of anything you wrote. It was an explanation of possible reasons that a doctor can legitimately discard papers from a patient's chart.

In my Humble Onion opinion, there is no excuse for laziness. Maybe the US is ahead of others for security.

I don't understand what "laziness" and "security" have to do with what we were discussing.

damagedgoods's picture

harleyman-6 wrote: Twain

harleyman-6 wrote:
Twain wrote:
JanieDough wrote:

Put that in your pipe and smoke it

I don't even understand why you are upset about what I posted. It was not a criticism of anything you wrote. It was an explanation of possible reasons that a doctor can legitimately discard papers from a patient's chart.

Ohh...lookie lookie
Another doctor on the forum.....everyone grab yer pitchfork...only problem is you're leading a crowd of what 4-5 people...not much of a mob.

Twain, you're actually shocked you're getting tone from this one? that's her M.O.

here's a novel concept for a forum;
you can't say "shut up"
You can't call people names.....let's see how long that one lasts...

Harley, get over your high school eduction. There is alot more going on in the world than your limited education.

Twain's picture

harleyman-6 wrote: Twain

harleyman-6 wrote:
Twain wrote:
JanieDough wrote:

Put that in your pipe and smoke it

I don't even understand why you are upset about what I posted. It was not a criticism of anything you wrote. It was an explanation of possible reasons that a doctor can legitimately discard papers from a patient's chart.

Ohh...lookie lookie
Another doctor on the forum.....everyone grab yer pitchfork...only problem is you're leading a crowd of what 4-5 people...not much of a mob.

Twain, you're actually shocked you're getting tone from this one? that's her M.O.

here's a novel concept for a forum;
you can't say "shut up"
You can't call people names.....let's see how long that one lasts...

I'm not shocked. I've been on this forum for 3 years and one of the things I've noticed is that problems occur when people misunderstand what someone else has written. I always start off giving s person the benefit of the doubt.

JanieDough's picture

harleyman-6 wrote: Twain

harleyman-6 wrote:
Twain wrote:
JanieDough wrote:

Put that in your pipe and smoke it

I don't even understand why you are upset about what I posted. It was not a criticism of anything you wrote. It was an explanation of possible reasons that a doctor can legitimately discard papers from a patient's chart.

Ohh...lookie lookie
Another doctor on the forum.....everyone grab yer pitchfork...

Twain, you're actually shocked you're getting tone from this one? that's her M.O.

here's a novel concept for a form;
you can't say "shut up"
You can't call people names.....let's see how long that one lasts...

Harley, you do it and get banned over and over from what I have been reading. Yet you keep coming back and repeating the same behavior. If you have a medical condition which prohibits you from learning, just let us know. I will be more than happy to give you additional help in understanding what you keep doing in the hopes you will finally understand. However, life is short. At least you could try harder to get along with others. As far as an M.O., you should know...yours sticks out like a sore thumb.

I don't dislike doctors. I do dislike you though, Harley. That is I would if you were worth any time out of my life...which you are not. Have another drink.

Twain, I understand tossing paperwork that is not necessary or is a duplicate. However, when a piece of paper is tossed while the doctor tossing it states "well, we don't want anyone to know about that do we?"...one must question motives.

As far as being upset...no, I am not. Do not place me in a position you wish me to be. I simply stated a fact. You responded. I stuck to my position. You stuck to yours....

I do believe that is called interacting with other humans. Interesting concept, isn't it.

JanieDough's picture

Twain wrote: harleyman-6

Twain wrote:
harleyman-6 wrote:
Twain wrote:
JanieDough wrote:

Put that in your pipe and smoke it

I don't even understand why you are upset about what I posted. It was not a criticism of anything you wrote. It was an explanation of possible reasons that a doctor can legitimately discard papers from a patient's chart.

Ohh...lookie lookie
Another doctor on the forum.....everyone grab yer pitchfork...only problem is you're leading a crowd of what 4-5 people...not much of a mob.

Twain, you're actually shocked you're getting tone from this one? that's her M.O.

here's a novel concept for a forum;
you can't say "shut up"
You can't call people names.....let's see how long that one lasts...

I'm not shocked. I've been on this forum for 3 years and one of the things I've noticed is that problems occur when people misunderstand what someone else has written. I always start off giving s person the benefit of the doubt.

lol!

Where?

damagedgoods's picture

Twain wrote: damagedgoods

Twain wrote:
damagedgoods wrote:
Twain wrote:
JanieDough wrote:
Twain wrote:
JanieDough wrote:
Twain wrote:
JanieDough wrote:

I have observed, personally, a doctor remove paperwork from the file of a patient and wad it up and toss it into the trash.

Let's not jump to conclusions so quickly. I have done just that MANY times.

- When the final lab report comes in, I throw out the preliminary result.

- When a patient calls for an appointment, my secretary writes on a paper why the patient made the appointment. I throw it out once the patient is in front of me.

- When a patient calls to tell my secretary what the problem is, she writes it on a paper (with the date stamped)and puts it on the chart. I review the problem and write on the paper what to tell the patient. When I see the patient next time, I review that interaction, write it in the chart, and add the outcome. I then discard the loose pieces of paper.

- I'm sure there are other situations when I wad and toss paperwork from the file of a patient, but I can't think of them now.

Don't YOU jump to conclusions, Twain! It is unbecoming at the least and foolish at best.

I was there each time. You were not. While I did not take the papers back out of the trash, I observed what was thrown out.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Every one of the papers I threw out were thrown into the trash. Have I done anything wrong in doing so?

Does Twain's comment make him look smart or like a smart azz?

I don't even understand why you are upset about what I posted. It was not a criticism of anything you wrote. It was an explanation of possible reasons that a doctor can legitimately discard papers from a patient's chart.

In my Humble Onion opinion, there is no excuse for laziness. Maybe the US is ahead of others for security.

I don't understand what "laziness" and "security" have to do with what we were discussing.

I don't understand what "laziness" and "security" have to do with what we were discussing.

What I see going on is security and patient privacy. How many people, including me HAD to go to work regardless to get our pay check. I went with papers, meds, and explanations of my absences. etc. It is a huge issue. A very serious issue. All undiagnosed. One doctor told me not to walk around (meds) with everything, yet, when you are at work, you need those for your appt.

Twain's picture

JanieDough wrote: Twain, I

JanieDough wrote:

Twain, I understand tossing paperwork that is not necessary or is a duplicate. However, when a piece of paper is tossed while the doctor tossing it states "well, we don't want anyone to know about that do we?"...one must question motives.

This is the first time I see that you have written that. Did I miss it elsewhere?
If you had written it, and I had seen it, then this whole exchange would not have taken place.

Twain's picture

damagedgoods wrote: What I

damagedgoods wrote:

What I see going on is security and patient privacy. How many people, including me HAD to go to work regardless to get our pay check. I went with papers, meds, and explanations of my absences. etc. It is a huge issue. A very serious issue. All undiagnosed. One doctor told me not to walk around (meds) with everything, yet, when you are at work, you need those for your appt.

I still don't understand what this has to do with what we were discussing.

Twain's picture

JanieDough wrote: Twain

JanieDough wrote:
Twain wrote:
harleyman-6 wrote:
Twain wrote:
JanieDough wrote:

Put that in your pipe and smoke it

I don't even understand why you are upset about what I posted. It was not a criticism of anything you wrote. It was an explanation of possible reasons that a doctor can legitimately discard papers from a patient's chart.

Ohh...lookie lookie
Another doctor on the forum.....everyone grab yer pitchfork...only problem is you're leading a crowd of what 4-5 people...not much of a mob.

Twain, you're actually shocked you're getting tone from this one? that's her M.O.

here's a novel concept for a forum;
you can't say "shut up"
You can't call people names.....let's see how long that one lasts...

I'm not shocked. I've been on this forum for 3 years and one of the things I've noticed is that problems occur when people misunderstand what someone else has written. I always start off giving s person the benefit of the doubt.

lol!

Where?

??????

JanieDough's picture

Twain wrote: JanieDough

Twain wrote:
JanieDough wrote:

Twain, I understand tossing paperwork that is not necessary or is a duplicate. However, when a piece of paper is tossed while the doctor tossing it states "well, we don't want anyone to know about that do we?"...one must question motives.

This is the first time I see that you have written that. Did I miss it elsewhere?
If you had written it, and I had seen it, then this whole exchange would not have taken place.

I was trying to not "out" an employer. Contrary to what some think of me around here, I do have ethics. That is one reason I quit working for him. Plus, I didn't want the doctors on this site come after me with pitchforks.

Shall we agree there is a time and a place for some documents to be discarded while others should not be discarded?

If so, fine by me.

damagedgoods's picture

JanieDough wrote: Twain

JanieDough wrote:
Twain wrote:
JanieDough wrote:

Twain, I understand tossing paperwork that is not necessary or is a duplicate. However, when a piece of paper is tossed while the doctor tossing it states "well, we don't want anyone to know about that do we?"...one must question motives.

This is the first time I see that you have written that. Did I miss it elsewhere?
If you had written it, and I had seen it, then this whole exchange would not have taken place.

I was trying to not "out" an employer. Contrary to what some think of me around here, I do have ethics. That is one reason I quit working for him. Plus, I didn't want the doctors on this site come after me with pitchforks.

Shall we agree there is a time and a place for some documents to be discarded while others should not be discarded?

If so, fine by me.

Here is another thing that happened to me today. I was soooo stupid. They asked why I was out of work for so long. Dumb me. I should have had more practice. I said the economy. I don't want to look like a loser. I'm not going to use that as excuse but they saw I was a people person. I never told them it hurts for me to friggin talk or smile!!! They KNEW something was wrong and they ARE NOT DOCTORS!!! Ha Ha Ha. I just have to wait and see what happens.

JanieDough's picture

damagedgoods

damagedgoods wrote:
JanieDough wrote:
Twain wrote:
JanieDough wrote:

Twain, I understand tossing paperwork that is not necessary or is a duplicate. However, when a piece of paper is tossed while the doctor tossing it states "well, we don't want anyone to know about that do we?"...one must question motives.

This is the first time I see that you have written that. Did I miss it elsewhere?
If you had written it, and I had seen it, then this whole exchange would not have taken place.

I was trying to not "out" an employer. Contrary to what some think of me around here, I do have ethics. That is one reason I quit working for him. Plus, I didn't want the doctors on this site come after me with pitchforks.

Shall we agree there is a time and a place for some documents to be discarded while others should not be discarded?

If so, fine by me.

Here is another thing that happened to me today. I was soooo stupid. They asked why I was out of work for so long. Dumb me. I should have had more practice. I said the economy. I don't want to look like a loser. I'm not going to use that as excuse but they saw I was a people person. I never told them it hurts for me to friggin talk or smile!!! They KNEW something was wrong and they ARE NOT DOCTORS!!! Ha Ha Ha. I just have to wait and see what happens.

I don't understand why you used the word stupid. Life is what it is and how we make it through each day proves our strength.

If you will excuse me, I want an Oreo. The Christmas ones with the red filling are available. Would you like one?

Twain's picture

JanieDough wrote: Shall we

JanieDough wrote:

Shall we agree there is a time and a place for some documents to be discarded while others should not be discarded?

If so, fine by me.

Right...and if you would have originally written what you did just a few minutes ago, this exchange would not have started.

Fine by me.

JanieDough's picture

Twain wrote: JanieDough

Twain wrote:
JanieDough wrote:

Shall we agree there is a time and a place for some documents to be discarded while others should not be discarded?

If so, fine by me.

Right...and if you would have originally written what you did just a few minutes ago, this exchange would not have started.

Fine by me.

Then we would not have had such an interesting exchange. Plus, I can't post everything in my life. The server would blow.

Oreo?

damagedgoods's picture

JanieDough

JanieDough wrote:
damagedgoods wrote:
JanieDough wrote:
Twain wrote:
JanieDough wrote:

Twain, I understand tossing paperwork that is not necessary or is a duplicate. However, when a piece of paper is tossed while the doctor tossing it states "well, we don't want anyone to know about that do we?"...one must question motives.

This is the first time I see that you have written that. Did I miss it elsewhere?
If you had written it, and I had seen it, then this whole exchange would not have taken place.

I was trying to not "out" an employer. Contrary to what some think of me around here, I do have ethics. That is one reason I quit working for him. Plus, I didn't want the doctors on this site come after me with pitchforks.

Shall we agree there is a time and a place for some documents to be discarded while others should not be discarded?

If so, fine by me.

Here is another thing that happened to me today. I was soooo stupid. They asked why I was out of work for so long. Dumb me. I should have had more practice. I said the economy. I don't want to look like a loser. I'm not going to use that as excuse but they saw I was a people person. I never told them it hurts for me to friggin talk or smile!!! They KNEW something was wrong and they ARE NOT DOCTORS!!! Ha Ha Ha. I just have to wait and see what happens.

I don't understand why you used the word stupid. Life is what it is and how we make it through each day proves our strength.

If you will excuse me, I want an Oreo. The Christmas ones with the red filling are available. Would you like one?

I use that word because of "stupid" people I worked with when this injury happened. It was all butt kisser who got away with ****. They were dumbass smokers and slackers and there I was in my condition trying to give it my all no matter what. Now I'm in a bad mood. I'll write later.

JanieDough's picture

damagedgoods

damagedgoods wrote:
JanieDough wrote:
damagedgoods wrote:
JanieDough wrote:
Twain wrote:
JanieDough wrote:

Twain, I understand tossing paperwork that is not necessary or is a duplicate. However, when a piece of paper is tossed while the doctor tossing it states "well, we don't want anyone to know about that do we?"...one must question motives.

This is the first time I see that you have written that. Did I miss it elsewhere?
If you had written it, and I had seen it, then this whole exchange would not have taken place.

I was trying to not "out" an employer. Contrary to what some think of me around here, I do have ethics. That is one reason I quit working for him. Plus, I didn't want the doctors on this site come after me with pitchforks.

Shall we agree there is a time and a place for some documents to be discarded while others should not be discarded?

If so, fine by me.

Here is another thing that happened to me today. I was soooo stupid. They asked why I was out of work for so long. Dumb me. I should have had more practice. I said the economy. I don't want to look like a loser. I'm not going to use that as excuse but they saw I was a people person. I never told them it hurts for me to friggin talk or smile!!! They KNEW something was wrong and they ARE NOT DOCTORS!!! Ha Ha Ha. I just have to wait and see what happens.

I don't understand why you used the word stupid. Life is what it is and how we make it through each day proves our strength.

If you will excuse me, I want an Oreo. The Christmas ones with the red filling are available. Would you like one?

I use that word because of "stupid" people I worked with when this injury happened. It was all butt kisser who got away with ****. They were dumbass smokers and slackers and there I was in my condition trying to give it my all no matter what. Now I'm in a bad mood. I'll write later.

Been there, done that, pretty sure I know how you feel. However, don't let them make you in a bad mood. You evolved....they did not. Oreo?

Imalert's picture

Seems some people are more

Seems some people are more concerned about Jane's ID
than HOW she died- To me this is unfortunate because most of us KNEW that she would want her tragedy to
be BLASTED all over the media!

For example --- I was on ebay for years - and there was a wonderful guy there who helped everyone with HTML and editing their images
He was sickly and eventually died - everyone was devastated when his wife came to ebay with the news
They celebrated his life and work right on ebay -
and paid tribute to him as a great human being

Many links were posted to his funeral etc
Other links were posted about his family by those
who knew him-
There was never any "identity" complaints at all

I know that the circumstances of Jane's passing are
circumspect to potential wrongdoing but it does NOT
alter the fact - that had she died in a car accident
Bones nor anyone else would not be citing "invasion
of privacy' about her identity.

Her passing is a matter of PUBLIC record
and her medical records are only subject to any party
who wishes to challenge their exposure.
HIPAA was enacted to protect patient privilege BY treating drs and institutions.

Let's stay FOCUSED on who Jane was and WHY we care
that her tragic ending was caused by a HOSPITAL'S
horrific conduct
Stop complaining to people here who CARE ABOUT JANE!!

Strawberry Jam's picture

heartthrob wrote: Jane used

heartthrob wrote:

Jane used to send me lots of emails. They were long diatribes, kibitzing about things on the forum. Ninety percent of what she wrote was laughing at bones and hardleyman!!! So I sincerely doubt that anything you say is going to concern her overly much.

Why she's up there laughing at you right now!!!

OMG, I can't believe what's happened to this thread since I left for work this morning and just now returned! Shocked Sad

Pam, I concur Jane is in hysterics right now -- she loved a good arguement, but this isn't a good arguement. I can hear her saying WTF?

rockygirl's picture

I'm sort of in the middle on

I'm sort of in the middle on this topic.

I am in total agreement with Pam stating (and I'm paraphrasing here) that she felt obligated to tell the other posters of Jane's death. She knew that she would need proof and so she posted the link to the obit. Some posters wanted to publicly express their sorrow at Jane's passing and did so in the memorial book, all good things.

As for the details of Jane's death, I don't know that everyone needed to know about them. But there was a group asking for details and those details were given. I have chosen not to read those threads. That doesn't make me better or worse than anyone else here, I'm in no position to judge, I just chose not to read them.

As for Mare making the decisions about what to provide--it's her right. You know why? Because Jane gave her that right. So whatever Mare decides to do, I can deal with that because Jane made the decision that she could trust Mare.

I need to say though, that we are really eating the docs alive lately. It's not the fault of Bones, Harley, Twain, Chris, etc. that my neuro dumped me or that I was molested by my doctor when I was 17. I don't always agree with them (in fact, Bones, I agree that this particular thread is in bad taste), but each one of them has tried to help me here on this forum, and I appreciate that. Likewise, doctors, you don't need to be constantly picking fights with people that were hurt by other doctors. Just like I have to accept that not all educators are good, you need to accept that there are some bad doctors in the world.

heartthrob's picture

Strawberry Jam

Strawberry Jam wrote:
heartthrob wrote:

Jane used to send me lots of emails. They were long diatribes, kibitzing about things on the forum. Ninety percent of what she wrote was laughing at bones and hardleyman!!! So I sincerely doubt that anything you say is going to concern her overly much.

Why she's up there laughing at you right now!!!

OMG, I can't believe what's happened to this thread since I left for work this morning and just now returned! Shocked Sad

Pam, I concur Jane is in hysterics right now -- she loved a good arguement, but this isn't a good arguement. I can hear her saying WTF?

It's horrible!!

We have to get back to the very important mission we were trying to accomplish, and that was to bring to light the horrific treatment that she received and to see changes made in that, and hopefully other emergency department. We wanted to see improved patient advocacy through independent persons. We wanted to see accountability by Umass.

I am waiting on replies to my letters, and disappointed that thus far I have had none. I wrote on another thread that I believe that addressing JCHO is futile, as I have tried to deal with them before. Does anyone have other suggestions? I have had some responses before from a medical ethics professor that I may try to look back up. I think that is another avenue that could be very useful, if we could find the right person.

Some thing/s have caused us to drop the ball and to lose our focus. Can we refocus?

wishandaprayer's picture

A thread was started looking

A thread was started looking for answers, but I don't see it now.

I've been "stuck" since going to the Ombudsman's office last week, and then receiving the response to my request for a reconsideration of my appeal, which was dated one day after I went to the Ombudsman's offfice.

I just feel that nobody is going to listen to anything I say, no matter what I say or do. I never realized how much patients didn't matter. Patients did matter to me when I was a nurse, and I thought that they mattered to other health care professionals. I know that I wasn't the only one who felt this way, and yet, from the responses that I have received from everyone, I really feel that nothing can be done.

I am having a very difficult time focussing because of this. Sad

rockygirl's picture

wishandaprayer wrote: A

wishandaprayer wrote:

A thread was started looking for answers, but I don't see it now.

I've been "stuck" since going to the Ombudsman's office last week, and then receiving the response to my request for a reconsideration of my appeal, which was dated one day after I went to the Ombudsman's offfice.

I just feel that nobody is going to listen to anything I say, no matter what I say or do. I never realized how much patients didn't matter. Patients did matter to me when I was a nurse, and I thought that they mattered to other health care professionals. I know that I wasn't the only one who felt this way, and yet, from the responses that I have received from everyone, I really feel that nothing can be done.

I am having a very difficult time focussing because of this. Sad

I'm sorry Wishie. Sad

Daenerys's picture

harleyman-6 wrote: Twain,

harleyman-6 wrote:

Twain, you're actually shocked you're getting tone from this one? that's her M.O.

here's a novel concept for a forum;
you can't say "shut up"
You can't call people names.....let's see how long that one lasts...

Sorry....totally not keeping up with stuff (I do know HM is back as number 6 Smiling ) but, is JanieDough a reincarnation of somebody? Can someone fill me in? You can pm me so we don't detract from the argument. Smiling Thanks.

JanieDough's picture

Daenerys wrote: harleyman-6

Daenerys wrote:
harleyman-6 wrote:

Twain, you're actually shocked you're getting tone from this one? that's her M.O.

here's a novel concept for a forum;
you can't say "shut up"
You can't call people names.....let's see how long that one lasts...

Sorry....totally not keeping up with stuff (I do know HM is back as number 6 Smiling ) but, is JanieDough a reincarnation of somebody? Can someone fill me in? You can pm me so we don't detract from the argument. Smiling Thanks.

Harley makes up stories as he can't deal with rejection.

abusedemotionally's picture

JanieDough wrote: Daenerys

JanieDough wrote:
Daenerys wrote:
harleyman-6 wrote:

Twain, you're actually shocked you're getting tone from this one? that's her M.O.

here's a novel concept for a forum;
you can't say "shut up"
You can't call people names.....let's see how long that one lasts...

Sorry....totally not keeping up with stuff (I do know HM is back as number 6 Smiling ) but, is JanieDough a reincarnation of somebody? Can someone fill me in? You can pm me so we don't detract from the argument. Smiling Thanks.

Harley makes up stories as he can't deal with rejection.

All I know is, if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck . . .

JanieDough's picture

abusedemotionally

abusedemotionally wrote:
JanieDough wrote:
Daenerys wrote:
harleyman-6 wrote:

Twain, you're actually shocked you're getting tone from this one? that's her M.O.

here's a novel concept for a forum;
you can't say "shut up"
You can't call people names.....let's see how long that one lasts...

Sorry....totally not keeping up with stuff (I do know HM is back as number 6 Smiling ) but, is JanieDough a reincarnation of somebody? Can someone fill me in? You can pm me so we don't detract from the argument. Smiling Thanks.

Harley makes up stories as he can't deal with rejection.

All I know is, if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck . . .

So you are saying you are a duck? That can cloud your judgment.

harleyman-6's picture

JanieDough

JanieDough wrote:
abusedemotionally wrote:

All I know is, if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck . . .

So you are saying you are a duck? I thought you were just abused emotionally. That can cloud your judgment.

CaseyS

I should have known. Your signature insults should be tradmarked and copyrighted. You wanna come after me, fine. Leave AE alone.

Do you realize the trouble you cause by contributing with such antagonizing behavior? I almost have to wonder where this thread might have gone without your incessant barking. The egging on of others. You had the right idea when you had the CaseyS screen name retired...did you forget about this one too?

What was that tiny little insignificant country that started WWI?...what a waste that was too.

JanieDough's picture

LOL! You really just don't

LOL! You really just don't get it.

Keep going. Your M.O. is showing again! Trying for Harleyman-12 perhaps?

abusedemotionally's picture

harleyman-6

harleyman-6 wrote:
JanieDough wrote:
abusedemotionally wrote:

All I know is, if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck . . .

So you are saying you are a duck? I thought you were just abused emotionally. That can cloud your judgment.

CaseyS

I should have known. Your signature insults should be tradmarked and copyrighted. You wanna come after me, fine. Leave AE alone.

LOL . . . I see that Dough edited her comment, but you managed to capture what she said. Eye-wink

Not to worry, Dough, I'm not that far into the clouds yet. But from the height that I'm looking, some things are looking pretty small. Smiling Eye-wink

JanieDough's picture

abusedemotionally

abusedemotionally wrote:
harleyman-6 wrote:
JanieDough wrote:
abusedemotionally wrote:

All I know is, if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck . . .

So you are saying you are a duck? I thought you were just abused emotionally. That can cloud your judgment.

CaseyS

I should have known. Your signature insults should be tradmarked and copyrighted. You wanna come after me, fine. Leave AE alone.

LOL . . . I see that Dough edited her comment, but you managed to capture what she said. Eye-wink

Not to worry, Dough, I'm not that far into the clouds yet. But from the height that I'm looking, some things are looking pretty small. Smiling Eye-wink

You said it, abused, not me. Congratulations! Nice to know you are above us all. Have a wonderful evening. Sticking out tongue

Time to leave for the movie. Carry on!

Twain's picture

Does anyone remember this

Does anyone remember this video with Jane/Cindy?

harleyman-6's picture

Twain wrote: Does anyone

Twain wrote:

Does anyone remember this video with Jane/Cindy?

that, could easily be my mother....nice video

rockygirl's picture

Twain wrote: Does anyone

Twain wrote:

Does anyone remember this video with Jane/Cindy?

I remember. Thanks for finding it.

heartthrob's picture

I'm lost and don't know

I'm lost and don't know where to look next, but I am going to try to find that medical ethics professor.

Seeing those old things/reminders almost makes me want to cry all over again. I emailed in the end "I'll take a train up there", but as it turns out she was too sick to read my email. Why didn't I make those efforts sooner? Why didn't I have her phone number? Why didn't I know her street address? Why didn't I invite her to visit me.

Maybe this is just a part of grief. All the whys. All the hind site. Why didn't I get to know her better. Then I have to sit back and think......well, she likely would not have let me. I don't know, I just wish she would have let me be closer, because I would have liked to know her better. Very much so.

JanieDough's picture

heartthrob wrote: I'm lost

heartthrob wrote:

I'm lost and don't know where to look next, but I am going to try to find that medical ethics professor.

Seeing those old things/reminders almost makes me want to cry all over again. I emailed in the end "I'll take a train up there", but as it turns out she was too sick to read my email. Why didn't I make those efforts sooner? Why didn't I have her phone number? Why didn't I know her street address? Why didn't I invite her to visit me.

Maybe this is just a part of grief. All the whys. All the hind site. Why didn't I get to know her better. Then I have to sit back and think......well, she likely would not have let me. I don't know, I just wish she would have let me be closer, because I would have liked to know her better. Very much so.

It is not only a part of grief, it is also showing exactly how much you care and your humanity.

wishandaprayer's picture

Pam - I think it is normal

Pam - I think it is normal to ask "why?". The answer to that is: That is how it was just meant to be. I'm sorry for the the grief that you are feeling.

You had no way of knowing, but if you had known, you would have made different choices.

You were not meant to know, but one day you will know "why?", and trust for now that things happen for a reason, and find comfort that one day you will see "why?".

I'm sending you an e-mail to cheer you up. Smiling

heartthrob's picture

wishandaprayer wrote: I'm

wishandaprayer wrote:

I'm sending you an e-mail to cheer you up. Smiling

Thank you Janice. I don't know if it cheered me up. It was beautiful. It made me cry.

wishandaprayer's picture

heartthrob

heartthrob wrote:
wishandaprayer wrote:

I'm sending you an e-mail to cheer you up. Smiling

Thank you Janice. I don't know if it cheered me up. It was beautiful. It made me cry.

Maybe that's just what you needed Pam. Sad

Daenerys's picture

Twain wrote: Does anyone

Twain wrote:

Does anyone remember this video with Jane/Cindy?

Yes Twain. I remember when she posted it. This IS NOT Cindy/Jane. She posted it because she wanted to illustrate how the cat in the video was exactly as lovable as hers.

Twain's picture

Daenerys wrote: Twain

Daenerys wrote:
Twain wrote:

Does anyone remember this video with Jane/Cindy?

Yes Twain. I remember when she posted it. This IS NOT Cindy/Jane. She posted it because she wanted to illustrate how the cat in the video was exactly as lovable as hers.

Sorry. I thought it WAS her.

blake2go's picture

Twain, by the power vested

Twain, by the power vested upon me by the squirrels, I am able to absolve you of your transgressions, consider yourself cleansed.

Now the fact that, Bones "the sky is falling" Bones, started this should have kept this thread from getting any traction.

Katherine's picture

heartthrob wrote: I'm lost

heartthrob wrote:

I'm lost and don't know where to look next, but I am going to try to find that medical ethics professor.

Seeing those old things/reminders almost makes me want to cry all over again. I emailed in the end "I'll take a train up there", but as it turns out she was too sick to read my email. Why didn't I make those efforts sooner? Why didn't I have her phone number? Why didn't I know her street address? Why didn't I invite her to visit me.

Maybe this is just a part of grief. All the whys. All the hind site. Why didn't I get to know her better. Then I have to sit back and think......well, she likely would not have let me. I don't know, I just wish she would have let me be closer, because I would have liked to know her better. Very much so.

IIRC you were pretty sick yourself at the time. And Jane didn't really tell us what was going on. She sounded too alive to be that sick. Women who are deathly ill don't usually end their posts with, "I've got some fish to fry."

heartthrob's picture

Katherine wrote: heartthrob

Katherine wrote:
heartthrob wrote:

I'm lost and don't know where to look next, but I am going to try to find that medical ethics professor.

Seeing those old things/reminders almost makes me want to cry all over again. I emailed in the end "I'll take a train up there", but as it turns out she was too sick to read my email. Why didn't I make those efforts sooner? Why didn't I have her phone number? Why didn't I know her street address? Why didn't I invite her to visit me.

Maybe this is just a part of grief. All the whys. All the hind site. Why didn't I get to know her better. Then I have to sit back and think......well, she likely would not have let me. I don't know, I just wish she would have let me be closer, because I would have liked to know her better. Very much so.

IIRC you were pretty sick yourself at the time. And Jane didn't really tell us what was going on. She sounded too alive to be that sick. Women who are deathly ill don't usually end their posts with, "I've got some fish to fry."

Oh Kat........I'm gonna cry again!!!!! Wasn't that just like her? "I've got some fish to fry." If we could all just walk away from this human existence with such dignity as going to fry a little fish. Regardless of what they did to her, she abounded with dignity in my minds eye.

The sky IS falling....we

The sky IS falling....we have the threat from radical Islam trying to get a nuke and now home grown muslims shooting innocents...Apparently he shouted "God Is great" just prior to opening fire. Let us hope this is an isolated event and there are not copy cat crimes from other Muslims on the edge. I am suprised this hasnt happened before to be honest...why we havent seen more suicide bombings in NA on soft targets like malls buses trains ect. Either Homeland security is doing an excellent job or they just are waiting to strike.

Daenerys's picture

Twain wrote: Daenerys

Twain wrote:
Daenerys wrote:
Twain wrote:

Does anyone remember this video with Jane/Cindy?

Yes Twain. I remember when she posted it. This IS NOT Cindy/Jane. She posted it because she wanted to illustrate how the cat in the video was exactly as lovable as hers.

Sorry. I thought it WAS her.

A lot of people did.

damagedgoods's picture

Daenerys wrote: Twain

Daenerys wrote:
Twain wrote:
Daenerys wrote:
Twain wrote:

Does anyone remember this video with Jane/Cindy?

Yes Twain. I remember when she posted it. This IS NOT Cindy/Jane. She posted it because she wanted to illustrate how the cat in the video was exactly as lovable as hers.

Sorry. I thought it WAS her.

A lot of people did.

I think Jane did post a real picture of her kitty. If you look closely at that video, that kitty did not have the same markings on it's nose as Jane's. That's how I knew.

Katherine's picture

bones wrote: The sky IS

bones wrote:

The sky IS falling....we have the threat from radical Islam trying to get a nuke and now home grown muslims shooting innocents...Apparently he shouted "God Is great" just prior to opening fire. Let us hope this is an isolated event and there are not copy cat crimes from other Muslims on the edge. I am suprised this hasnt happened before to be honest...why we havent seen more suicide bombings in NA on soft targets like malls buses trains ect. Either Homeland security is doing an excellent job or they just are waiting to strike.

Give me a BREAK.

Al Qaida is fighting a holy war. Holy wars must be justifiable in the eyes of the the parishioners. Attack a mall, and you are going to kill INNOCENTS. Children. Babies. Housewives. Mothers. Not even the most fanatical muslim can justify doing that without a damn good reason.

Yes, children, babies, housewives, and mothers were killed on 9/11 but they weren't the target. The target was the American economy and American military and some of the most powerful people who make it run. You aren't going to do the sort of damage that was INTENDED by those attacks by hitting a little mall in small town America. What you will achieve are pointless deaths and some very angry people who WILL take it out on the muslims in their neighborhoods. That sort of attack WILL backfire every single time.

And by the way, if you think you're getting me--or possibly anybody else--all upset and excited by your latest alarmist post, think again. You disgust me too much to upset me.

heartthrob's picture

bones wrote: The sky IS

bones wrote:

The sky IS falling....we have the threat from radical Islam trying to get a nuke and now home grown muslims shooting innocents...Apparently he shouted "God Is great" just prior to opening fire. Let us hope this is an isolated event and there are not copy cat crimes from other Muslims on the edge. I am suprised this hasnt happened before to be honest...why we havent seen more suicide bombings in NA on soft targets like malls buses trains ect. Either Homeland security is doing an excellent job or they just are waiting to strike.

Was your purpose in posting this here simply to force people to read it?

hcm mare's picture

bones wrote: The sky IS

bones wrote:

The sky IS falling....we have the threat from radical Islam trying to get a nuke and now home grown muslims shooting innocents...Apparently he shouted "God Is great" just prior to opening fire. Let us hope this is an isolated event and there are not copy cat crimes from other Muslims on the edge. I am suprised this hasnt happened before to be honest...why we havent seen more suicide bombings in NA on soft targets like malls buses trains ect. Either Homeland security is doing an excellent job or they just are waiting to strike.

Wow! Do you realize you can just substitute "doctors" for muslims and it makes just as much sense? Thanks for posting this comment and really revealing yourself. Anonymous posting is great. No accountability!
"... and now home grown doctors shooting innocents...
"Let us hope this is an isolated event and there are not copy cat crimes from other doctors on the edge."

heartthrob's picture

hcm mare wrote: bones

hcm mare wrote:
bones wrote:

The sky IS falling....we have the threat from radical Islam trying to get a nuke and now home grown muslims shooting innocents...Apparently he shouted "God Is great" just prior to opening fire. Let us hope this is an isolated event and there are not copy cat crimes from other Muslims on the edge. I am suprised this hasnt happened before to be honest...why we havent seen more suicide bombings in NA on soft targets like malls buses trains ect. Either Homeland security is doing an excellent job or they just are waiting to strike.

Wow! Do you realize you can just substitute "doctors" for muslims and it makes just as much sense? Thanks for posting this comment and really revealing yourself. Anonymous posting is great. No accountability!
"... and now home grown doctors shooting innocents...
"Let us hope this is an isolated event and there are not copy cat crimes from other doctors on the edge."

harleyman-6's picture

heartthrob wrote: hcm mare

heartthrob wrote:
hcm mare wrote:
bones wrote:

The sky IS falling....we have the threat from radical Islam trying to get a nuke and now home grown muslims shooting innocents...Apparently he shouted "God Is great" just prior to opening fire. Let us hope this is an isolated event and there are not copy cat crimes from other Muslims on the edge. I am suprised this hasnt happened before to be honest...why we havent seen more suicide bombings in NA on soft targets like malls buses trains ect. Either Homeland security is doing an excellent job or they just are waiting to strike.

Wow! Do you realize you can just substitute "doctors" for muslims and it makes just as much sense? Thanks for posting this comment and really revealing yourself. Anonymous posting is great. No accountability!
"... and now home grown doctors shooting innocents...
"Let us hope this is an isolated event and there are not copy cat crimes from other doctors on the edge."

That is so non-sensical it's hilarious...I'm laughing with you on this one Throb!

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