What are your thoughts on how this was handled? Is it me? Tamiflu was apparantly a bad word...
I have been beating myself up over this and wonder if I was wrong in asking for Tamiflu for myself and my family.
My husband had a very high fever, cough, sore throat and sore body and muscles. He was in bed for 3 days straight and never really woke to do anything other than the necessities of bathroom, medication, eat (and that was very minimal). He was not hospitalized and is ok. H1N1?? not sure but I have never seen him like this is the 15 years of marriage. 2 days later, my daughter (8 years old) spiked a high fever with a sore throat and cough. Went to the doctor and says she is fine but if something weird happens like vomitting, her lips turn purplely-blue then take her to the children's hospital. We went home. I have not had it yet nor has my son (although he is coughing alot but no fever). Nonetheless, we did all end up getting the H1N1 shot.
A bit of background to why concern - I work in a childcare facility that has little children whose siblings have been confirmed, through testing, with the H1N1. This is the same school that my children go to. Here's where it gets wierd and frightening to me that the following happened.
My doctor owns her own private practise and has been quite good. We have learned to accept her strong personality, her colorful language and her sometimes lack of concern toward your very real concerns. Sometimes I think she acts that way to help you not worry too much. Knowing her personality and her ability to be nonchalant about some things was more the reason that I thought I should stand up and request a Tamiflu prescription for my family to act as a precautionary measure. (can't buy it over the counter here). Her manager was who I was directed to on the phone. She told me over the phone that I would not get any prescription and that when my husband and daughter were in and they were not that bad!! I was not comforted by that comment as she is not at home watching them. Anyway, I asked why and all sorts of others questions. I did get upset because like many others, was worried for my family. The manageer kept talking and her voice was very annoyed at me. It was difficult to get a word in edgewise so I asked her to give me a minute of her time and her reply was "and that all you got!" She went on to say that my family is not the only ones and she continued... blah, blah, blah... She then said that she deals with this 25 times a day. Clearly she was frustrated too. I told her that I would rather speak to my doctor (her boss) instead and let her know about how she handled things during our conversation. She toned it down and became more bareable.
So, a few minutes after hanging up my doctor calls (her boss). Immediatley she too starts yelling at me and telling me that she will not stand for me harassing her staff and that I was being rude and impolite. She then quotes some doctors code thing and continues to rip up one side of me and down the other. This phone call was even worse the the initial call to the manager! My doctor was no better, in fact she was worse. She told me that she never phones her patients at home and that she is only doing so now out of the courtesy of our history together. She went on to say how she will not provide prescriptions when she feels things are not necessary. I get that... I really do BUT like her manager, she was not understanding one simple thing. To me it was no longer about the Tamiflu, they said no - I respect that. It was now about how this was handled. I tried to tell her that the Tamiflu is a dead issue and that I am not questioning her decision but rather HOW I was being treated. She never heard me because she was too busy talking (oops, sorry - yelling) over me. Clearly her manager told her that I was unruly and disrespectful which puts me in the wrong and put my doctor on the defense. I know this whole H1N1 has many up in arms but as a doctor, who is in the care profession, it is up to her to listen to her patients (no matter how repetative it may be to them) and not forget that this is a huge concern to some and is very real and scary. Anyway, I simply could not handle her mouth anymore so I just told her that I was done and I hung up the phone.
Anyone know a good doctor?
Hi, mommabear2 . . . welcome
Hi, mommabear2 . . . welcome to the forum.
I believe you have every right to be upset. I would be too. What I can't understand is why your worries were not taken seriously considering that your children have had a good chance of having been exposed to the virus. As well, since your husband has never displayed such a reaction to illness in the history of your marriage (which I can appreciate, as my husband is the same), would again raise red flags to me. Everyone is being told to watch out for signs, yet when you reported same, your concerns are dismissed. I, personally, would be really P!ssed off if I received the treatment that you received from both the manager and the doctor.
You can file a complaint with the College of Physicians and Surgeons. Will they do anything? From my experience, probably not much . . . but at least you know that you voiced your concerns . . .
I do hope that you and your family is safe from the virus . . . if is a 'MAJOR" concern.
AE
Office staff can really ruin
Office staff can really ruin a good relationship with a doctor. I'm sorry that you had to deal with this problem, especially when your family was so sick.
understandable to be upset
understandable to be upset with the health of your family. however, tamiflu is only really effective if started within the first 24-48 hours of the onset of symptoms. Not wanting to hear "they weren't that bad". may have been insulting, but may have been trying to indicate the severity of others. There is a shortage of Tamiflu, and the manufacture is making adult doses that can be diluted by the pharmacist to produce children's elixer.
Tamiflu is by prescription only here as well. After being told no you were not getting the prescription. did your questions and tone become more hostile yourself?. is it possible that you were not understanding the refusal and the rationale?.
Did your questions become mis interpreted as a "demand" by the manager..
you stated her voice was annoying to you, is it possible that subconsciously you had just as much a role in the incident?
To prescribe a medication during a period of shortage and high anxiety as a precaution to your family,.. thats necessary doses another family wouldn't have available to them.
I think two things here: 1.
I think two things here:
1. The issue re the tamiflu became a non issue and your concern is how the manager handled it. It seems the access to the script became a power struggle for you and the doctor and or her manager. THe decision NOt to give it was probably right if more than 72 hrs had passed since the fever and symptoms began. I would think in the initial visit with fever and as sick as your husband was he WOULD have been a candidate at the initial visit but he obviously recovered ok. It sounds as though what really ticked you off is the manner of the manager and you were NOT expecting the same treatment from the doctor...a more calm demeanor by the manager and the doc would have gone over better perhaps.??
2. I think this smells of therapeutic incompatability. My guess is this response by the manager and the doctor seems they have you pegged as a "difficult patient" and My guess is this response is because they have felt your request and request to speak to the doctor only further labelled you as difficult? Are you the type of patient that calls and gets frustrated or upset if not getting same day appts? Do you show up with more than just yourself and ask for your husband or whoever...to just "fit them in really quick"..do you call and book for one problem but once in the room have 5 or 6 others on your list?Do you frequently challenge or ask repeated questions of the doctor about a diagnosis or test result or frequently ask for second opinions that result in the same treatment or diagnosis outline by your family doctor? If the answer is YES to some of these things then you unfortunately ARE a difficult patient that unless your doctor is able to segregate the feelings of frustration without letting them impact on the clinical encounter...sooner or later the type of reaction results. It is kind of an "Ahhah...caught you in a mistake" type of reaction..Ie the team has you pegged as difficult and your "unreasonable demand for tamiflu" (not argueing if it was or was not) gave them a reason to give you disciplinary action in the form of telling you off.They felt entitled to tell you off because they felt YOU were in the wrong FINALLY they could prove it after all the other difficult interactions and they let you have it.
The alternative is that you have not been guilty of any of the offences mentioned and your doctor or manager was just being jerky..and the reaction was totally uncalled for. Unless your doctor posts on here HER observations from HER side. we may never now the total story.
1. - The majority of
1. - The majority of seasonal flu has become 98%-99% resistant to most antivirals, including tamiflu.
2. - Tamiflu is no longer recommended for anyone between the ages of 10+19 because of several neuro psychological side effects within this age group.
3. - H1N1 is only 18% resistant to tamiflu, but if Your family didn't present to the doctor as having H1N1, they wouldn't prescribe it.
4. - did they test for H1N1?
what medical degree did you
what medical degree did you post....tamiflu IS indicated in symptomatic patients despite the risk of suicidal ideation or pre existing history of psych illness.;. these are relative contraindications...not absolute based on age...read your cps guy
It is ONly contraindicated
It is ONly contraindicated in children under 1 yr of age....check your facts before you post medical stuff!
Thanks for all the replies.
Thanks for all the replies. It does help me and I have thought alot about it. Someone mentioned that I may be part to blame and after thinking I would say yes, I am to a degree because I did get upset when they told me that my husband and daughter where not really that sick. I looked to the medical profession to help me because I was scared and worried. I take responsiblilty where I feel I was wrong and will apologize for it. In my original post I did say that I got upset but not to the degree that warranted a response like that. I have learned alot more through reading everyone posts about Tamiflu than my dr's office even attempted to help me understand.
As far as a "difficult patient" I would have to say my doctor and I and her staff always had a great relationship. We laughed with one another, I brought coffee in on occassion and I genuinely loved my doctor and the ladies. I show up on time for my appointments, I discuss only I problem per visit and don't hound for appointments. In fact, the staff often got me in on short notice because we all got along so well. This "manager: I never met though and am assuming is new. I could be wrong. Yes, to the person who also said that they don't know the whole story. That's true too because you don't hear her side of the story to defend herself. Personally, I think she was stressed as many are and it showed up with me. I beleive she told my doctor that I was "difficult" and my doctor did not take the time to hear the flip side either (my side that is). Normally, my doctor is high stress and that is just her. Sometimes it shows in her rants and her swearing and cursing. Whatever, I still liked her and even though I know she has it in her to go off like that I was still shocked by her reaction because we did have such a good rapport. Hurt, yeah I kind of am - It is sad really. I just wanted her to not accuse me of something so harsh instead of going off the way she did. I thought our respect for one another was mutual. I still beleive it could have been handled by merely talking with both parties and going from there.
At this point, I don't care anymore about the manager but I think I am more dissapointed in my doctor. I don't even want to go back because of teh uncomfortablility factor this will cause. Who knows maybe she doesn't want me back either???
Personally, I think all of this was high stress related on everyone's part - including mine BUT a calmer approach would have allieviated alot and made me and my family feel cared for.
understand the uncomfortable
understand the uncomfortable feeling. what time of day was this call?.. it is entirely possible that your doctor was having a really bad day, had to relay some devastating news to someone etc.. you dont know..if your relations with this office staff and doctor up to this point have been good.. chalk it up to the high stress and being scared.. your doctor may also be feeling some discomfort in the manner she handled the situation, and maybe was a little miffed since she also feels a good relation with you, it to me would explain her calling you herself shortly after first call with manager. ive seen my husband do that, speak directly to patient after ive spoken to them and such.. if you trust this doctor to guide you thru health crisis and assist in maintaining your good health.. i would hesitate to leave that over a mis understanding and hard feelings. give it whatever time frame you feel is appropriate, then if you still feel the same.. send her a letter with an explaination of why your transferring out., that would still leave the door open if you opt to return at a later time.
bones wrote: I think two
I think two things here:
1. The issue re the tamiflu became a non issue and your concern is how the manager handled it. It seems the access to the script became a power struggle for you and the doctor and or her manager. THe decision NOt to give it was probably right if more than 72 hrs had passed since the fever and symptoms began. I would think in the initial visit with fever and as sick as your husband was he WOULD have been a candidate at the initial visit but he obviously recovered ok. It sounds as though what really ticked you off is the manner of the manager and you were NOT expecting the same treatment from the doctor...a more calm demeanor by the manager and the doc would have gone over better perhaps.??
2. I think this smells of therapeutic incompatability. My guess is this response by the manager and the doctor seems they have you pegged as a "difficult patient" and My guess is this response is because they have felt your request and request to speak to the doctor only further labelled you as difficult? Are you the type of patient that calls and gets frustrated or upset if not getting same day appts? Do you show up with more than just yourself and ask for your husband or whoever...to just "fit them in really quick"..do you call and book for one problem but once in the room have 5 or 6 others on your list?Do you frequently challenge or ask repeated questions of the doctor about a diagnosis or test result or frequently ask for second opinions that result in the same treatment or diagnosis outline by your family doctor? If the answer is YES to some of these things then you unfortunately ARE a difficult patient that unless your doctor is able to segregate the feelings of frustration without letting them impact on the clinical encounter...sooner or later the type of reaction results. It is kind of an "Ahhah...caught you in a mistake" type of reaction..Ie the team has you pegged as difficult and your "unreasonable demand for tamiflu" (not argueing if it was or was not) gave them a reason to give you disciplinary action in the form of telling you off.They felt entitled to tell you off because they felt YOU were in the wrong FINALLY they could prove it after all the other difficult interactions and they let you have it.
The alternative is that you have not been guilty of any of the offences mentioned and your doctor or manager was just being jerky..and the reaction was totally uncalled for. Unless your doctor posts on here HER observations from HER side. we may never now the total story.
Bones,
I always have a lot of problems on the list. My doctors know. I try to be their last appointments and I never complain about having to wait. I am very medically complicated, a lot of conditions and medications. No one ever asks when I make appointments how many problems I have. I am compliant. How does have a lot of medical issues make me difficult? Is this why my neuro dumped me? (I never did any of the other stuff). I don't understand why a doctor would be mad at someone for being really sick.
bones wrote: what medical
what medical degree did you post....tamiflu IS indicated in symptomatic patients despite the risk of suicidal ideation or pre existing history of psych illness.;. these are relative contraindications...not absolute based on age...read your cps guy
Bones.......won't argue with you too much, as I am not a Doc and don't have a cps.....but I have done a lot of research on the subject reading medical journals. The iformation I was giving was based on a medical journal from Japan, which is the largest consumer of Tamiflu (60% of world production), where they no longer RECOMMEND usage between the ages of 10+19 because of several adverse reactions.
I shouldn't have included this, as the study left far too many questionable variables. There was no percentage given and no mention of predisposition.
Sorry if I didn't explain my post well enough.
I really only meant my post to be a list of POSSIBLE reasons why the doc may not have wanted to prescribe Tamiflu........but I really have no idea.
4. - did they test for
4. - did they test for H1N1?
A further difficulty of administering Tamiflu. There is no time to test for H1N1 since experts say that Tamiflu has to be admin. within the first 48 hours of the onset of symptoms.
No, they did not test for
No, they did not test for H1N1. Here in the area in which I live, they no longer test for H1N1 because they say it is already here. In the beginning they tested and tested and tested. Now because it is confirmed locally they are not testing anymore. I guess they are assuming most flu's here (whether mild or not mild) is related to H1N1. I have a friend that works for STARS and she was saying that many of their calls lately have been H1N1 related and need immediate attention. Unfortunately, some have not pulled through.
Anyway, knowing this little added info from my friend was just another reason why I was scared and worried for my family - as we all are! Wish my doctor could have understood that - and her manager!
first of all you should you
first of all you should you should have told the person on the phone where to go and hung up. if the doc called the doc should have been told the same thing and then get a new doc. all this from his office was uncalled for.